Mr. Mark Molloy:

I wish to back up something Mr. Kelly has said by referring to the e-mail schedule I went through earlier. It answers the question as to whether the HSE is fit for purpose. I will not mention any names but one of the e-mails reads as follows: "I know you are aware that the high rates of harm that I allude to are reflective of what is occurring in other jurisdictions also." I stress the phrase "high rates of harm" as opposed to the "best" and "safest" country in the world in which to have a baby. The reference is not to "average" but to "high" rates of harm. This e-mail was written in December 2012 by the people who are responsible for the safety of all hospital services, not just maternity services, in Ireland.

That was the way those who were responsible for safety in all hospitals, not just maternity hospitals, spoke about this in December 2012, five months before Mary Kate died. It was absolutely disgraceful.