Ms Sheila O'Connor:

I will not say much. On Deputy Mary Mitchell O'Connor's comment that people do not go to work to cause harm, that is patently true. We hear it being said all the time. We understand and know it. Were people to go to work to cause harm, it would put it in a completely different category of responsibility altogether and it is almost unnecessary to say it because otherwise, one would be dealing with something completely different.

Senator Colm Burke asked about staffing. We have neither the competence nor the ability to examine staffing levels in units when people come to Patient Focus with complaints; we simply do not. We deal with individual stories; we listen to people; we believe them and put them in the direction of those who can help them to find out the truth. I must acknowledge that, sometimes or frequently, people are wrong, but even in these circumstances, there normally is dreadful hurt caused by the lack of humanity shown to them when they start to raise issues.

As for the issue of locums on which the Senator picked up, it is a big problem. It was a problem in dealing with the cancer issue and is a problem now. It also is a problem in reviews because people are gone. They have left the country or go missing; consequently, people do not find out. Moreover, in respect of Medical Council inquiries, people are in Australia, South Africa or wherever else and this definitely is a problem in getting them to answer.

I agree completely with Senator John Crown when he states Drogheda was about more than a bad doctor or a doctor who was not up to scratch. Clearly, there were enormous system problems and there was a lack of audits, which completely remains the position in the country. I agree with the Senator that the health service is not as safe as it should be. One major reaction of Ms Molloy who was a patient of Michael Neary, when she heard about HIQA's report, was to ask where the Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital inquiry was in this regard. What about all of the recommendations made in 2007? There were recommendations on audits, clinical directorship and the complaints system, but they are missing. Moreover, in respect of the complaints system, in Patient Focus we have frequently believed the systems are at far too junior a level and that one needs people in a complaints office who are able to confront individuals with body language and skills in closing down questions.

Frequently, that is not what one gets and the personality-----