Mr. Patrick Davitt:

No, we weren't unaware of it because valuers ... members of IPAV were looking to get on valuation panels. So, like, if a valuer member of IPAV looked to get on a panel, we could guarantee from our point of view that at least they had the experience of being a certified valuer. There were lots of valuers probably on the panels who weren't members of IPAV and who possibly weren't valuers in their own right and there's nothing obviously we could do about that because they weren't members of ours. But, at the same time, any member that had the experience, we would count them as certified valuers and we would be happy they would get on the panels of banks. And if banks had a problem, obviously they would make representations to IPAV and tell them that this valuer did X or Y or whatever and we would look at it. But the whole scenario with the banks and who they would appoint ... and if they appointed them because you were a customer of the bank, for instance, if that be the case, that would be the case. And if you were a member of IPAV and you thought the way to get on the panel was to talk to your local bank manager, because you were a client in that bank-----