Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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The draft minutes of the meeting of 22 April 2015 have been circulated. Are the minutes of the meeting agreed?

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Chairman for getting a response from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade regarding the motion on the Armenian genocide. It is unfortunate that the same four lines were put at the very end of it, as were in the reply given to the parliamentary question tabled by Sinn Féin last Tuesday. I fail to understand how Ireland cannot take a position until there is international consensus on the matter. The Pope represents 1 billion people. The European Union has a few countries involved and the European Parliament has managed to pass something and yet we are waiting like sheep to follow everybody else. I wonder if we could get whoever it is in our esteemed Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to allow us to take a position on the issue and not allow us to be sheep.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is fine.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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On the same issue, I welcome the said reply. The UN General Assembly does not recognise it but I think a UN special rapporteur's report in 1985 agreed that what happened to the Armenians in 1915 met the criteria of genocide. It is almost as if our position is that we are not taking a position, which is sad. If we are to wait on international consensus on issues, we will wait a long time. We pride ourselves on having a different view. It is understandable that some countries would not adopt a position, in particular NATO countries. The US, for instance, has not adopted a position but 43 of the 50 states have adopted positions in relation to it. I do not know if the Chairman wants to get into the details of the note as it is probably private. Is it on the public record?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We can bring up the issue again. We are dealing with the minutes of the previous meeting, so we do not wish to have a comprehensive discussion on it. However, I will allow members to comment. The most important point is that we have got a much more comprehensive reply on this occasion. Reconciliation between both countries is the best way forward. Does Deputy Crowe wish to add anything else?

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I am coming from the perspective that there must be a recognition. We must talk in terms of the Ottoman Empire, when this happened. I would like to think that the committee could be proactive in terms of inviting some experts in the area in. I accept it would put extra work on the committee but it would be appreciated. Turkish citizens have spoken publicly on the matter. The difficulty the two countries have at the moment would be improved considerably by a recognition of what happened. Initially, when the Turkish state was set up, it was planned to have a recognition and then the position changed to it being the case that anyone who said genocide had taken place would end up before the courts. The situation is bizarre. In other countries one can be brought to court for not recognising genocide. I suggest that we look at the matter again and put time aside to examine the matter in the future, with the possibility of inviting in speakers.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is a good idea. It is something we will explore and consider later. We have no problem in doing that.

David Norris (Independent)
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I do not see how one can have reconciliation if one does not face the truth. In 1915, a total of 1.5 million Armenians were specifically targeted and eliminated. People are now prosecuted within Turkey for arguing that it is a genocide. A German officer was in Turkey during the period of the genocide. Subsequently, in the 1930s he wrote to Hitler to say that if Hitler was not careful, they would find themselves in the same situation of genocide. It seems to me that it is a very cowardly position for Ireland to take, to sit on the fence and not to make the clear decision that this is genocide.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank Senator Norris and I call Deputy Eric Byrne.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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When we were debating the issue of genocide and Armenia last week, I said that I heard some speakers from Armenia speak very intelligently about the issue. I was surprised that the members of the Opposition were pushing so hard for a vote. I was disappointed that they pushed the matter to a vote, in so far as it deferred another vote on the issue for six months. The reason I raise the issue in conjunction with what we just heard is that it is an historical fact that has to be decided by historians and we must be cognisant of that. What was amazing, retrospectively, because I did not know it at the time I spoke, was that the President of Ireland was on his way to Ankara that very day. I do not understand why the Opposition would wish to embarrass the President on this very important commemoration of the victims of the slaughter in the First World War in Gallipoli. It is beyond belief. The very same day, or the very same week, the Turkish ambassador to Austria was withdrawn and the net result of Opposition members playing politics with the issue would have been a disgraceful position to force-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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If Deputy Eric Byrne, does not mind, I do not want to have a discussion on the matter now.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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Could I reply to Deputy Eric Byrne?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We are not having a discussion on the matter.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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The Austrian ambassador was-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry, Deputy Eric Byrne, but we are not having a discussion on the matter now. We discussed it at the previous meeting.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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The President would have been embarrassed.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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The President would have been disgraced.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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If you are happy to stand over what you said and voted on-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Through the Chair.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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If you are happy to say that the slaughter of 1.5 million people is not worthy of recognition, then you can just live with that.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Through the Chair. Senator Mark Daly, show some respect for the Chair.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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The Labour Party can live with that; it is up to itself.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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If you are quite happy for the Labour Party to say that this was not genocide-----

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I allowed some discretion to discuss this. However, we are not having a full discussion on it.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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I was discussing the minutes. He was discussing me.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Do not speak when the Chair is speaking.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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If you want me to name you as the prime mover, I will.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Excuse me.

Mark Daly (Fianna Fail)
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No problem, Mr. Byrne. You can name anybody you want to name. It is on the record as to how you voted on this issue.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I have had to use the gavel which is rare.

David Norris (Independent)
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May I comment? One of the virtues of this committee traditionally has been its non-partisan nature. It would be a great pity if this morning’s little kerfuffle were allowed to derail that.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Yes. We are not going to have a discussion on this. Deputy Seán Crowe has some constructive ideas on the way we should move forward. Members should go along with that in a constructive way to see what the committee can do to work towards reconciliation and normalisation of relations between Armenia and Turkey. Maybe we can do something small on this as a committee. I thank Deputy Seán Crowe for bringing that up this morning. Are the minutes agreed? Agreed.

Before we commence the meeting, I want to welcome our new adviser from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Ms Laoise Moore. She is taking over from Ms Olive Hempenstall on a temporary basis. She comes to us from a posting in Malaysia. We are delighted to have her here as a link between the Department and the committee. Both the secretariat and I insisted we have an adviser as quickly as possible. We look forward to working closely with her.

I want to give members an opportunity to talk on the tragic events in Nepal over the weekend when an earthquake devastated Kathmandu and other areas there. We have seen reports that over 5,000 people have died with over 10,000 injured. This morning I telephoned a friend of mine who is the chief executive officer of the Nepal Institute for Strategic Studies in Kathmandu to get an update on the situation there. He said there is terrible chaos there. Most people are without water and electricity and are sleeping on the streets because of the fear that many of the remaining buildings are unsafe. Along with the huge loss of life, much of the Nepalese culture has also been destroyed, such as their temples. While many supplies are coming in, the airport is still congested as people rush to leave the country. Our thoughts are with those people affected, particularly those in the higher regions which many of the emergency services have still not reached. We do not know the extent of the damage in those areas or how many deaths or injuries have occurred there. My thoughts are with them. I commend the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and the Minister of State, for the allocation of €1 million towards the relief fund for Nepal. Hopefully, it can be increased as we get more information from Nepal.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the allocation from the overseas development aid budget. If further assistance can be given, it would be very welcome. I heard an appeal by GOAL this morning from one of its personnel out there. Again, we should commend and support the work of our non-governmental organisations. I am sure they are working with their sister organisations. I hope the Department will be able to give them some assistance towards their work on the ground.

This morning on my local radio station, I heard a person from County Monaghan who is in Nepal and has thankfully made contact with his family through an e-mail earlier this morning. He is safe.

David Norris (Independent)
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Is that Mr. Thomas Drumm?

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

David Norris (Independent)
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Very good.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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He said in his e-mail to his cousin that there was absolute chaos locally. He hopes to get to the airport to get a flight on Friday to Thailand. Hopefully, other people who are missing will be found and contact made with their families.

Will the Minister and Minister of State give further assistance from their budget to assist Nepal at this very difficult time and get the assistance there as rapidly as is possible?

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I had a briefing yesterday from the Department on that. There are about ten Irish people not accounted for. Some of these people may have moved on to other countries, so the Department is not sure. It is keeping a close eye on it. An emergency crisis centre has been set up in the Department to deal with that.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Just on that point, Mr. Drumm’s cousin made the point that not everybody has immediate access to e-mail or other communications. Hopefully, those who have not made contact yet are safe and well and will make contact soon.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I join with the Chairman and Deputy Brendan Smith in extending our heartfelt sympathy to the people of Nepal. I hope the ten Irish people who have not been accounted for are not actually missing but are alive and well. I know this area attracts very experienced travellers from Ireland. They are well used to travelling to obscure and remote regions. Telecommunications are obviously down and mobile telephones are useless at this stage, even the ability to power them has gone. We have to live in hope that these adventurer tourists from Ireland are not injured in any way. I thank the Government for its contribution and fast response to disasters like this. As the tragedy unfolds, I hope we will be there to assist the people of Nepal in the rebuilding of their infrastructure for housing, electricity and water.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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We have all seen the utter devastation and terrifying scenes from Nepal on the television, YouTube and social media. I welcome the fact extra funding has been agreed for the area. What is facing the people in Nepal is our main concern. Like in all disasters, there is the initial interest to help but then much of the support is gradually withdrawn. The likes of China and India responded immediately by sending helicopters and other aid to the area. We have seen the relief efforts in Kathmandu and other major cities.

The devastation will have a serious impact on rural areas, as well as roads and other infrastructure. There are also serious after-shocks. The committee should write to the Nepalese embassy in London on behalf of the committee and the Irish people as a whole to express our deepest sadness the loss of life.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join my colleagues in extending our sincere sympathy to all those who have lost loved ones. We should communicate our support for them in any way we can. It is to be welcomed that the Government responded quickly by pledging €1 million and I hope additional resources will be found. It is particularly worrying that so many remote areas of the region have not yet been reached and the situation could prove to be much worse than we imagine. We can hope that the power of communications and social media will alert all countries to the plight of these unfortunate people and that the response from other countries and Governments will also be generous. I have no doubt the Irish people will respond to the various NGOs which are fund-raising for the victims at this particular time and that the response will be as generous as it always has been.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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It is obviously heartbreaking and devastating to see what has happened. We seem to be going from one disaster to another - the tsunami, the disaster in the Philippines and now what is happening in Nepal. These disasters push the other humanitarian crises further down the agenda. If we think about what is happening in Gaza, there is no rebuilding going on. Equating it with our country and imagining whole areas being wiped out brings home the horror of what has happened. I hope the committee writes to the Nepalese ambassador but I ask that in the letter, special consideration would be given to people with disabilities who get caught up in disasters such as the earthquake. Sometimes they do not have sight, speech or hearing and however bad it is for able bodied people, it is worse for children and people with a disability. I ask that this point be made.

David Norris (Independent)
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I am very pleased to hear Mr. Drumm has been located. I heard his cousin on a wireless yesterday and, to be quite honest with the committee, I thought he was gone. I welcome the fact the Government is providing €1 million but I hope the figure will be kept under review. In terms of the scale of the tragedy, it is pretty small beer. I, therefore, hope it will be kept continually under revision so that, as more funds are needed, they will be provided.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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We will take the views expressed on board and write to the Nepalese ambassador in London highlighting the issues raised by all the members, including Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan's point about children and people with disabilities. We will offer our deepest sympathy and outline to the ambassador what the Government has done in respect of this terrible tragedy. We will also keep ourselves updated on the situation. The media will move on after a few more weeks to some other crisis. As in Haiti and the Philippines, people will have to rebuild. The Nepalese Government is probably getting good help at the moment. I am told it is getting good help from their neighbouring countries, including China. We wish the NGOs, in particular Irish NGOs, working there well and hope that the casualty list will not increase as time goes on.