Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I broadly share the concerns expressed by Deputy Fleming. I appreciate that the new regime differs in as much as bodies have to be exempted. That is the right approach. However, I am not convinced by the Minister's proposals before us. Above all, I am alarmed in terms of the change of effective date, particularly in respect of refugee bodies. My position on the issue of direct provision is that I want to see it abolished. I want to see cases dealt with appropriately and lawfully and an end to the practice where people spend years in these centres. Children spend their entire school careers coming and going in these centres. The abuses of people's rights, and I put it as strongly as that, are very well documented and it is a scandal that has slowly built and unfolded under our eyes. The system in this State knows it is happening yet it is allowed to continue. It is scandalous. I acknowledge that there is a working group working on this area. I hope that working group manages to abolish direct provision sooner rather than later.

The reason I am deeply alarmed by any limitation being put on access to information in respect of these bodies is because if ever there were a process and a system that is veiled in secrecy and a lack of clarity, it is the process of refuge and asylum in this State. We have an archaic and opaque system that leaves people who find themselves in the midst of that system utterly at sea, often with virtually no support, and in many cases very little information. The Minister might respond by saying that individuals will still have access to their own files. I accept that, but the oversight of third party bodies in respect of this system in particular is essential, and it is wrong for the Minister to introduce this change in terms of effective date. I do not doubt that the line Department in question made the request. That does not surprise me one little bit, but I believe the Minister is making a big mistake in agreeing to it, and it is certainly something I could not countenance supporting. It is simply wrong, and I put it to the Minister in those strong terms. However, I do not believe it is an effort by the Minister or the line Minister to necessarily deny people their legal rights, which is a concern of Deputy Fleming's. I believe it is more that the system is so banjaxed that there has been, and the track record reflects this, a strategy of information containment and keeping things in the dark, and what the Minister is proposing here today adds to that trend. That is most worrying and disappointing, and I ask him to take that particular proposal off the table. Of any issue the Minister has come to committee looking for our assent, this is the most worrying of all of them.

In respect of the Private Residential Tenancies Board, I will tell the Minister my experience of that organisation. It is a miracle if they answer the telephone. They are horribly under-resourced and anybody who has to interact with them can tell the Minister that at first hand. I do not know if other Deputies have had that experience. When one eventually gets through to them I find them helpful, professional and courteous, in fairness to their staff, but it is very clear that they are under-resourced. I do not accept that they should have this limitation in respect of FOI afforded to them. It is a fact, and I accept that they need more staff and more resources, but I am sure all of us in our various constituencies can confirm that, increasingly, there is a huge volume of people presenting in respect of disputes with landlords. It may be most acute in the city of Dublin where property prices are increasing, and rents have increased approximately 9% in the last period. The problem is very acute. This is a body that as we speak is difficult to get in contact with. People report it is difficult to get interactions with its staff. I believe that is a resource issue. Others might have a different view but given the sensitivity of this whole area now I see no argument in policy terms or good practice to limit access to information through this body. On the contrary, we should be looking to resource it more effectively and to make information flow more easily.

I take the Minister's point in respect of the exemption of some of the public bodies. With the exception of the Oifig Choimisinéir na dTeangacha Oifigiúla, I would have thought there are already sufficient checks and balances within the legislation in respect of information that might be deemed to be commercially sensitive. The Minister might recall that during the passage of the legislation we had endless debates on what was and was not commercial sensitivity. It strikes me that those provisions protect those legitimately sensitive areas the Minister identifies. The Commissioner might be a different kettle of fish. I accept the Shannon Group is in line with the Minister's thinking in respect of other commercial semi-State entities. We had that debate here.

I see the logic of where the Minister is coming from in that instance. I am not sure about the Irish Red Cross. My concern relates mainly to the National Treasury Management Agency, the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland and the State Claims Agency. I do not accept that the Minister has presented a conclusive argument for the action he is taking. The change that alarms me most is the changing of the effective dates, particularly as they pertain to the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner and the Refugee Appeals Tribunal. It is a mistake to do that. If the Minister listens to nothing else I have said today, I ask him to take that point on board and withdraw that particular proposal. It is simply wrong and will make what is a bad situation a whole lot worse.