Sr. Bernadette MacMahon:

In respect of Deputy Tóibín's question about whether low pay is entrenched, there is greater awareness today of poverty and more transparency and accountability. One thing that always worries me when I have conversations, even with friends, is that there is a lot of defensive low pay among employers. They talk about their businesses collapsing and yet a search in this area shows that where wages have increased, companies have not gone to the wall. My concern is that a lot of it is not just what the politicians do, it is the general public. Do we have the will and how do we see other people? That is a huge challenge to keep before the population. We are talking about human beings with equal dignity. It is a challenge to see whether we can not only change the perspective of employers but that of the general public.

Deputy Tóibín referred to what might happen if the Low Pay Commission looks only at the minimum wage. I think we should start at the minimum because income must be the starting point but the provision of services is key. When I hear about comparisons with other countries, I say "stop, we are comparing apples and eggs, not even apples and oranges" because the services are not available in our country.

In respect of compliance, we work a lot with people on very low incomes and €1 per hour can make an enormous difference at the end of the week. We would like to think that we will work progressively towards a better standard of living but every step of an increase is a step in the right direction.