Mr. Simon Carswell:

The Anglo credit and risk infrastructure or committees were set up to find a "Yes" in loans that came in from customers and loan proposals. It was almost regarded as a lender's failure to get a borrower's loan deal over the line. That was seen as a problem for the lender and not the borrower, so the comment I made earlier that the bank was too close to its borrowers stands. They were way too close, and I used the word "cosy" in my opening statement. I think they were very cosy, and in terms of the inability of both the lenders looking to get the loan deal over the line and the people looking to approve that loan deal, that whole scenario was established to do whatever they possibly could to get that money to the borrower. The question not asked at a much broader level by the senior management of the bank was, "Should we be doing all this lending into property?" In the credit and risk committee that was never discussed.