Mr. A.J. Noonan:

First and foremost, to deal with the Senator's initial point about amusement, I am amused at the trade union movement and amused that people think that employers have all of the solutions and plenty of money.

Many small business people do not get paid the minimum wage. Many small business people in this country have not taken a wage for two or three years. Therefore, I would be very careful. Obviously, your politics and my politics will never be in the same equation, because you actually want to tax more and you want us to pick up the tab.

You asked what responsibility employers have. We have a responsibility to create wealth and thereby create jobs. It is up to Government to redistribute that wealth. It is not our job to redistribute wealth. It is not our job to increase taxation. It is our job to keep our businesses going. Far fewer people are self-employed now than in 2008, as a result of many of the policies that this Government has implemented.

I have grave concerns about the attitude towards the national minimum wage and the question that we have a responsibility. I have given two evidence-based examples from my conversations last week of companies which will have to let people go for different reasons. First, they are unable to afford to keep the people on. Second, it is now possible for one of the companies to automate its processes and thereby create wealth in the organisation. That is our job. That is my view anyway as an employer of 24 years standing.

You mentioned fairness. Why do you as a-----