Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, and her officials. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter to only qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I also advise them that any submission or opening statement made to the committee may be published on its website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I thank the Minister of State and her officials for their attendance. After the Minister of State has made her opening statement, I will give committee members five minutes each and call them in the normal order. If the Minister of State does not have particular information requested, I ask her to communicate it in writing to members in the coming days. I invite her to make her opening statement.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I am delighted to be here to inform the joint committee about my work areas and future plans to support the sustainable development of rural communities throughout Ireland. As committee members will appreciate, the issues concerning rural areas are many and diverse and I will oultine briefly the main areas of focus.

As committee members are aware, I have responsibility for managing the implementation of the 34 recommendations contained in the report of the Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas, the CEDRA report as it has become commonly known. The recommendations take a wide-ranging and long-term view of what is required to support rural economic development in Ireland in the future. With my Government colleagues, I am committed to implementing them.

A significant amount of work is under way. I chair an interdepartmental group, comprising senior officials from all relevant Departments, which has been established as recommended by CEDRA. It is working in a co-ordinated way to support the economic development of rural areas. The nature of the CEDRA recommendations is such that they will take time to address. An initial evaluation and assignment of each recommendation has been made in line with statutory responsibilities and a multi-sectoral CEDRA work programme with specific actions is being finalised. Work is also well advanced on the establishment of a rural economic development zone, REDZ, pilot scheme. An announcement of the details of the pilot scheme is envisaged in the coming weeks.

The pilot scheme will be integrated with the preparation of the local economic and community plans by local authorities, to maximise the economic and community benefits of the REDZs.

One of the recommendations contained in the CEDRA report relates to the establishment of a rural innovation and development fund, for which I have received an allocation of €1 million in the 2015 budget through the Department of Agriculture, Food and Marine Vote. I am examining a number of options on how this fund can be most effectively used and leveraged. We have already agreed to provide funding in 2015 for the cross-Border project, social farming across borders, SoFAB. This project is operated through the Leader company, Leitrim Development Company, and allows clients who use health and social services facilities to avail of the option of working on family farms as part of their therapy. It is proving to be extremely effective and it is certainly a very worthwhile model of how we might look at other such projects. Already, this company has placed more 40 clients on 20 family farms on both sides of the Border, following a specialist ten-week training course for the clients as well as comprehensive training for more than 60 personnel on the delivery of social farming. This has been a very successful project which has helped improve the self-esteem of social service clients, has eased them back into the workforce and has benefited the host farms socially and financially. The 2015 funding allocation will enable this Leader company to continue this work and, more important, assist it to develop new social farming initiatives throughout the country. The Minister, Deputy Coveney, and I are currently in discussion on a number of other proposals which could usefully be advanced using this fund, and I expect that these will be finalised within the next month.

As members will be aware the Government is engaged in a process of reforming local government to make it the main vehicle of governance and public service at local level, resulting in better quality and more integrated service delivery, with enhanced local accountability through the local democratic processes. As part of the reform programme, the Government is pursuing a closer alignment of local government and local development, and proposals to deliver on this are included in Putting People First – Action Programme for Effective Local Government, which was approved by Government in October 2012.

The Local Government Reform Act 2014 underpins these proposals and provides for the establishment of local community development committees, LCDCs, in all local authority areas, as well as for the development by them of the community elements of new six-year local economic and community plans. Most public representatives are very familiar with this process. It is intended that LCDCs will bring about a more coherent and joined-up approach to publicly funded programme delivery in the areas of economic, social and community development than heretofore. It is in line with the bottom-up approach and it all relates to the community.

Local authorities have made significant progress in establishing LCDCs in all 31 local authority areas since the commencement of the Act in June 2014. LCDCs now meet regularly and have made considerable headway in advancing their work programmes since June. They have commenced work on their local economic and community plans and it is intended that these plans will be in place by the end of December 2015. These plans will facilitate closer working relationships between all development agencies at local level and should bring greater co-ordination to the broad range of local and community development activity in each LCDC area.

LCDCs have also successfully managed the tendering of my Department's new social inclusion and community activation programme at local level. This tendering process is nearing completion and we expect that the successful tenderers will commence programme delivery in all areas from 1 April this year. This is the critical element, that is, that we are on the ground from 1 April delivering those services.

It is also envisaged that LCDCs will be central to the delivery of the Leader programme 2014-2020. The reforms at local level are also being supported at a national level through an interdepartmental group supported by my Department. Under the oversight of this group, we have gone recently to consultation on a proposed framework policy for local and community development. The purpose of the policy is to underpin a whole-of-government approach to the planning, oversight and delivery of local and community development programmes at national or local level. When approved, it will provide a framework for supporting and investing in community development actions and approaches that empower communities to participate in and influence decision-making processes and bring about change for the benefit of people within those communities, again adhering to the bottom-up approach.

I was recently assigned to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and now have taken on additional responsibilities which include the implementation of the Leader elements of the rural development programme, RDP. Leader is delivered using a community-led approach where it is the rural communities themselves that are the primary decision-makers regarding what is needed to support the development of their own areas. Leader has formed an integral part of the support framework for rural Ireland since it began in the early 1990s. The most recent programme covering the 2007-2013 programming period has provided almost €340 million to rural communities since it commenced in 2009. Since 2009, almost 9,000 enterprises have been supported and more than 4,000 jobs created. In 2014 alone, 1,880 enterprises were supported creating more than 1,100 jobs.

The support is delivered through the framework of local development strategies implemented by local action groups. The current round of Leader is coming to a close, and the selection process for Leader strategies for the 2014-2020 programming period is due to begin shortly. I expect to have these strategies operational in all rural areas by the end of 2015, although I envisage that many strategies will be operational by late summer or early autumn this year.

The Leader element of the RDP 2014-2020 will provide €250 million in financial resources for rural areas over the next five to six years with the aim of helping to address issues such as poverty, social inclusion and the economic development of rural Ireland. I am very committed to this type of approach and believe that it will continue to be an integral part of the support system for the development of rural communities for many years to come.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Could I interrupt the Minister of State? There are approximately five or six pages left in her speech. Everybody has had a copy of her speech since yesterday, so could I ask the Minister of State to proceed to the conclusion, which will give us more time?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Government has recently commenced a public consultation on a proposed framework policy for local and community development. The purpose of the policy is to underpin a whole-of-government approach to the planning, oversight and delivery of local and community development programmes at national or local level. When approved, it will provide a framework for supporting and investing in community development actions and approaches that empower communities to participate in and influence decision-making processes and bring about change for the benefit of people within those communities. This will benefit all communities in Ireland, rural as well as urban.

Support for the development of rural communities is a diverse area of activity which involves ongoing and detailed interaction between Departments and other stakeholders, and I am committed to ensuring that this interaction is constructive and delivers for rural Ireland.

Coming from a rural area, I am only too well aware of the enormous challenges facing rural communities, particularly in the aftermath of the recent financial crisis. However, I am also aware of the amazing potential within rural communities, both from the people and their place, to contribute to the recovery that is clearly now under way. I am determined that the systems established at national level and, particularly, at local level will ensure that rural communities will be fully supported in addressing challenges and achieving their potential.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for facilitating our request. Before calling other speakers, I have one or two questions. In her opening statement, the Minister of State mentioned the Commission for the Economic Development of Rural Areas, CEDRA, report, and I have a couple of questions about it. What is the most challenging issue in implementing the report's recommendations? With the announcement from Bus Éireann, for example, in recent days, is there much co-operation at an interdepartmental level for the issues which are the responsibility of the Minister of State? Would one arm of the State, for example, make a decision that might militate against her objectives as Minister of State with responsibility for rural affairs? This is important as one of the main recommendations of CEDRA was the creation of that ministerial responsibility. People are mindful of tight resources and the consequences of the economic crash. There was generally a warm welcome for the Minister of State's appointment, particularly given her interest in many of the matters we have discussed here. I know the Minister of State as a colleague, and she pursued those matters with great vigour before her elevation to a ministerial position. That recommendation from CEDRA was very well received in my area in west Cork.

The questions concern the challenges facing the implementation of CEDRA and the state of interdepartmental support, bearing in mind the different arms of the State, including public transport and broadband. How realistic are the levels of assistance and how are these groups working to help the Minister of State achieve her aims in the Department?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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There are challenges arising from the CEDRA report. In dealing with rural areas and issues, it is not a case of one size fits all, so different communities have nuanced requirements. Even if I decide on a certain priority, it may not necessarily be what communities want. There is an interdepartmental group and all Departments are extremely committed to implementing the CEDRA report recommendations. I see my work as being at the local level, depending on the work of a local authority. I am dealing with communities and I need flexibility to manoeuvre at the community level.

I met the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, last week to discuss the Action Plan for Jobs, how that will facilitate rural and regional areas and how we fit into that process. Each Department has its own responsibility, and there is a timeline, which will be set out in 2015. Each Department will have its own actions, which will pursued vigorously by my Department. I am working extremely closely with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy White, and we meet on a regular basis for updates on broadband provision, which is one of the most important issues in rural Ireland. Without fail, in every rural community I visit, that is one of the most common issues raised with me. I am working very closely with that Minister's officials to facilitate the roll-out of broadband.

My role arising from CEDRA recommendations is to be a voice or advocate for rural Ireland. I have noticed that when we have debates in the Dáil, there are many issues raised that relate to rural Ireland. I do not know if the Chairman has noticed that. Since I became the Minister of State with responsibility for rural affairs, the issue has very much come on the agenda in the Houses, and it is also on everybody else's agenda. My essential role is to advocate for rural Ireland, ensuring all the Departments account for rural Ireland in formulating their policies. We are achieving that goal.

There are challenges, and in the time left to this Government, one of the priorities I have chosen is to roll out the rural economic development zones. We will begin the pilot process soon and we are signing off criteria. I am working with my officials on the roll-out of that process, which is one of the more important actions we can do under the recommendations. There are many other recommendations, and all 34 of them are very important in some way. Some may depend on a particular Department, but it is my job to co-ordinate the recommendations and work with other Ministers to deliver those supports to rural Ireland.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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We can take contributions from two members each time before the Minister of State answers. If we keep the contributions limited to questions, it would be a productive use of both our time and that of the Minister of State. Members may have approximately five minutes each.

Barry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State and her officials to the meeting and congratulate her on her appointment. I wish her well in that role. As we have five minutes, I have a small amount of time to say much. Make no mistake about it: there is a crisis out there. I do not want to be dramatic; I am only stating the obvious. If one speaks with anybody in rural Ireland in our constituencies or looks at rural towns and villages, one will witness absolute deprivation or dilapidation in the towns. The lifeblood has been taken from them and there is minimal retail activity. Unfortunately, people are not upbeat about their prospects.

I am disappointed that the Department which had a specific remit for rural affairs was dropped, but I am glad to see recently a new emphasis, and I hope that turns into something more. We must consider the facts, and they have recently jumped out at me. The decentralisation programme, whether we liked it or not, has been scrapped, along with the CLÁR programme. Community welfare offices and officers have been taken from rural areas and Garda stations have closed, with post offices continuing to shut as well. There is much pressure being placed on rural schools with between one and four teachers, as we can see with pupil-teacher ratios. There has been some rowing back on that, but if the Government is serious about rural schools and the communities and activities around them, the schools should be left alone and they should be treated as any other school is with regard to pupil-teacher ratios.

Shops and pubs are closing, as has been mentioned. I could be accused of holding a candle for the licensed trade, but while ridiculous prices exist in the multiples which sell alcohol, pubs will continue to close and there will not be any policing or controlled atmosphere, as there has been in the licensed premises which have served us well in the past. That brings about all kinds of difficulties and social issues, which must be recognised, and efforts must be made in a more focused manner to address the issue. The Government has fudged that for too long.

I produced a document, Streets Ahead, approximately 18 months ago and made it available to Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, who was the Minister responsible for the area at the time. I hope it has been passed to the Minister of State, as there are many suggestions in the document that I would expect her to seriously consider and seek to implement in order to address the dilapidation in rural towns and villages and revitalise them. We must work closely with local authorities to ensure they can have some hope of doing this. Many of the suggestions would be cost-neutral.

On Saturday the Taoiseach made a bold statement at his Ard-Fheis when he indicated that the Government would invest €4 billion in rural Ireland between now and 2020. I would like to see the meat on the bone of that commitment.

Will it be a re-announcement of funding across various Departments to various sectors in rural Ireland? This includes roads, hospitals and schools and local development companies. Is there anything new in the commitment? If I was in government and I thought there was €4 billion to spare, I would be looking at the universal social charge. It was a tax brought in in emergency circumstances and if the Government is telling us the truth that the emergency is over and there is €4 billion to spare, that is the shot in the arm that the country needs, including rural Ireland. More economic activity will be generated by virtue of that shot in the arm.

There is also the issue of retrospective bank capitalisation - the commitment by the Government to bring funding back to where it belongs by making a break between the sovereign and banking debt, since we invested so heavily to stave off contagion and save the euro. These are real issues that are not being addressed by the Government. This is something the Minister of State, along with everyone in government, has a responsibility to follow through. A commitment was made in June 2013. The Taoiseach and the then Tánaiste ran out of the summit and could not tell the reporters quickly enough that they had a deal for Ireland and that we were special. However, it went no further, and we heard over Christmas that the policy had been abandoned by the Government because it now wishes to look at selling AIB, which will compensate us. A commitment was given and the funding that would be available to the country as a result would be massive.

When a statement is made on the national airwaves that €4 billion will be invested in rural Ireland between now and 2020, are we supposed to sit on our hands and wait to see how it materialises? With all due respect, that is not very fair to the Minister of State in her role, who has responsibility for injecting life into rural Ireland and rural development so that we can get behind her to work with her. Local authorities can then see that there is light at the end of the tunnel. The day of the bland statement has gone, and that must be recognised. The Taoiseach made a statement like that on Saturday, and on Monday we have 100 rural bus routes scrapped, two days after we were told by the Taoiseach that €4 billion was going to be invested in rural Ireland. That day is over and I hope it is forgotten about.

I hope the commitments made in respect of CEDRA, the work done on negotiation, consultation and engagement and the recommendations will work quickly. I believe the group has only met three times. Let us see the Minister of State get the support she needs from Government. Let us see the €4 billion over the next three or four years being placed in the Department in the hands of the Minister of State so that she can make recommendations similar to the 35 that exist and get funding to match the commitments. In that case, we can sit here in two years' time, having grasped the nettle, and see that things are being done and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. At the moment, the regions need a shot in the arm and they need real commitments, real spending and real resources. They do not need statements at ard-fheiseanna or conferences about investment of €4 billion over the next four years. That investment will happen anyway because lights, roads, footpaths, water services and developments in school building programmes and housing have already been announced. We welcome this, but let us see them in action.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, and her officials to this important meeting. It is probably one of the most important meetings we have had this year. It is not often that I find myself in agreement with a member of Fianna Fáil, but 197 post offices closed under Fianna Fáil between 2006 and 2010, as against 24 between 2010 and 2014. The same goes for schools, with 49 closing between 2004 and 2011, as against nine under this Government. The facts speak for themselves.

Like the Minister of State, I hail from a rural community and I have always been proud of that fact. Travelling from Longford to Leinster House, I pass through many towns and small villages that have been desecrated by the recession. It is easy to see rural communities and rural towns that have experienced the negative impact of the current economic crisis. This has affected rural areas more than urban centres.

I prefer to refer to the CEDRA report as the Spillane report. Those preparing it gathered more than 1,000 submissions and held more than 100 public meetings. The Minister of State is well aware of grassroots feelings about what is continuing to happen in rural Ireland, where people are still not experiencing growth in the economy, as is happening in major towns and cities, where there are daily announcements of jobs. This is not the case in rural areas. Surveys show an increase of unemployment of 192% in some small towns between 2006 and 2011, compared to 114% in urban areas. What has been done to date and what plans does the Minister of State have to ensure rural towns and rural villages are on a level playing field with larger urban centres?

At the outset, the Minister of State said it would cost €1 million to implement the report. That is a pittance, because €1 million is not a lot today. It is not adequate funding in the budget; the allocation should have gone into double figures.

Many rural businesses and households have access to very basic broadband. It is patchy in several parts of rural Ireland. In my parish it is non-existent, and people who to try to set up businesses are unable to access the broadband services they require to run a modern business. Throughout rural Ireland, there is no high-quality broadband coverage. The Minister of State presumably experiences the same in parts of Kilkenny. There is widespread availability of high-speed broadband of 50 Mbps in many urban areas. How does the Minister of State provide a commitment that at least 30 Mbps will be delivered to all rural areas by the end of the year? When Deputy Pat Rabbitte was the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, he gave a commitment on this. Is it still achievable?

We are told time and again that rural tourism has huge potential. Are there plans to provide capital investment in rural areas so we can achieve a clear strategy to promote tourism in rural areas? We all know that the Leader programme was hailed as the godsend for rural Ireland over the past decade. It was key to the development of many wonderful projects and the creation of employment in rural areas. Communities that availed of the Leader programme in the past are now cash-starved. When does the Minister of State anticipate funding for the Leader project? Something in the region of €250 million was provided, but its roll-out will be important.

With regard to the pilot scheme, I hope the Minister of State can revisit last week's "Prime Time", which came from the midlands. It featured my county, Longford, and showed the very high unemployment rate, with nearly 20% of the population unemployed.

I believe a pilot scheme should be initiated in County Longford to provide a true reflection of the depredation that has been caused in rural Ireland. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State could answer these questions.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I thank members for their questions. While I have been given responsibility for the portfolio for rural affairs, the issues are challenging. I believe that if we identify the issues and try to deal with them in a realistic manner, we will make progress. Deputy Cowen spoke about the demise of rural towns and villages. I am hugely conscious of this issue. We have a rural towns stimulus package which is based on specific actions and works with local authorities. Through their local community development committees, LCDCs, local authorities must identify in their economic plans the issues and proposals identified by the Deputy. They must consider whether they can attract a lower rates base and what they can do working with Government supports. Senator Denis Landy sent me practical proposals similar to those made by Deputy Cowen which could be worked on with the local authorities. Such proposals should be pushed forward and I would be an advocate for that.

On funding, under the rural development programme some €250 million will be injected into rural communities and the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP, will provide €24 million. While the CEDRA report does not have a designated budget, this does not mean there is no funding available. I have spoken to the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and local authorities and they are rural-proofing their new business plans and policies, and rural Ireland is very much on their agenda.

I also work with people from Irish Rural Link. Rural pubs were referred to and it is sad to see the demise of the rural pub. I have seen the effects in my community. People in Britain have novel ideas on this issue and there the rural pub reinvented itself and became the local shop as well. I am working closely with organisations in rural Ireland who have good and practical suggestions on how we can make improvements in rural Ireland by doing things that might not cost a significant amount but would make a big difference.

I fully understand the concern about the post office network and the closure of rural post offices because I know what they mean to the people of rural Ireland. As a committee member, I argued that post offices have offered more of a service than that provided as a post office and that perhaps that service should be measured in an economic way. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy White, has set up a working group on the post office network. I sit on that working group which is chaired by an independent chairman, Bobby Kerr. The group is due to report to Government before the summer of this year and I expect it will do good work. The post office network is extremely important and is part of the fabric of rural Ireland. As a member of that committee, I will do what I can to consolidate further the post office network in rural Ireland.

The announcement by the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, last week on rural schools is welcome. She knows of my concerns about rural areas and schools. Rural schools are embedded in communities and she knows that these communities feel their schools are the heart of their community and want to keep that the case. Of course, resources will always be a factor. I have advocated for the retention of rural schools and welcome last week's announcement.

In the past, some planning decisions may have contributed to the demise of some of our small towns and villages. For example, I have seen large housing estates built in some villages and towns that did not have basic facilities such as a pharmacy or GP service and which only had a small school that could not cope with the influx of housing. The lack of services meant people tended to move on to the nearest large town, leaving us with sleeper towns and villages. We are trying to arrest this, but that will not be easy. We must keep up our efforts and I am committed to looking at practical steps to help these communities, towns and villages.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for attending this committee and I wish her well in her new position. There are so many issues in regard to rural Ireland that we could spend a week discussing them here.

I represent County Laois and south Kildare is now part of the same constituency. The striking thing about this area is the rolling back and the absence of basic services. Monasterevin, for example, had a day care centre operated by a voluntary committee with a small clinic run by two nurses, but the HSE closed the day care centre before any replacement was put in place. This was the only facility in this area providing this service, but the doors have been closed on it now for more than six months.

The closure of Garda stations is mentioned regularly. Numerous community welfare centres in County Laois have been closed. The one in Ballylinan, for example, served the east of the county, but it was closed following an overnight announcement. People who are unemployed and dependent on assistance are those who need community welfare officers. These people often have no transport, but the door is now closed to them. They are given a phone number for a contact person but may not be able to get through on the phone. This is the situation.

We can talk all we like about CEDRA, SoFAB and LCDCs, but while we must have these acronyms, the issue is all very convoluted. All of these mean nothing to people who cannot access basic services, such as a day care centre, a Garda station or a post office. I am aware there is a working group in place that is examining the post office network, but the Minister of State should be aware that a stand-alone post office that provides the range of services provided currently will not be able to sustain itself in rural areas. Take for example the one that closed most recently in Ballycolla, County Laois. This post office was just about hanging on, but when the postmistress retired, the post office closed. These small post offices need some support and the service provided in them needs to be expanded to make them commercially viable. This is the issue in regard to post offices. The Minister of State is at the working group table and I ask her to raise this issue there and to come up with a plan for rural post offices.

We can have all the long-winded documents, but some of this is basic stuff. I lived in Scotland for a while and I used to be able to go in and tax my car in a post office that looked very much like Ballycolla post office. That was nearly 30 years ago. It was no problem, with no questions asked. I just walked in, gave them the money, gave them the log book, the registration document, and the person behind the counter went through the process and handed out my car tax disc. We need to increase the range of services provided by post offices and try to look at them as part of a more integrated service. The postman for the local village also provided public transport. The post van was an eight-seater and the back part of it carried mail and the rest of it carried passengers, so along with dropping mail it also carried passengers from a local village called Innerwick to a town called Dunbar. I am just putting that out there for what it is worth. There needs to be new thinking on all of that and more integrated services with the post office and a wider range of services to give the post office commercial sustainability.

While there have been big announcements on broadband, the reality is, and everyone knows this, that there are large areas, not just small pockets, that are not serviced by broadband and there are other areas where there is very poor broadband. We all know that it is essential. There are many people who are sole traders, or perhaps have one or two people working with them, and they are operating in a rural area. This is as important now as rural electrification. It is like somebody trying to run a small business in the 1950s without electricity. Can the Minister of State give a straight answer on what kind of timeline we can expect for broadband because a large number of the constituents I represent in County Laois are without it?

The third thing I want to mention is bus services. Bus Éireann, at the stroke of a pen, wiped out 100 services. It has stopped servicing all the towns in County Laois on the Dublin-Limerick route. Mountrath, Borris-in-Ossory and all the rest of them are no longer served. It long ago stopped servicing Abbeyleix on the Cork route. It has taken off Abbeyleix, Durrow, Cullahill and Johnstown. As the Minister of State knows, because she is at the other end of this route, it has now taken off Castlecomer, where the Minister of State was last night. It has taken off Newtown, Crettyard, Ballylinan and the town of Athy. The Minister of State, in her opening statement, spoke about social inclusion, economic development and tourism. We all want those things but it has to be possible to get in and out of an area. While rural transport is hugely important, we should also think about the volume of rain that fell yesterday and that one cannot expect people to stand at bus stops on a day like yesterday. There are no bus shelters. We need small bus shelters, not to fit 100 people but four people. Can we get that? Can we get a plan rolled out, first, to establish a bus service on those routes and, second, to have bus shelters and advertisements clearly marking the location of bus stops?

Robert Dowds (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I am very conscious that I am the only urban Deputy in this assembly. Like most Dubs I am only a step away from my rural past. First of all, I congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, on her appointment. She is a most appropriate person for this position given where she hails from, a town that has much potential.

One of the things I am conscious of is that many of the contributions so far have focused on 20th century solutions to 21st century problems. I will try to stick to questions as much as possible. Going back to one of the last points that Deputy Stanley made, has any thought been given to the combination of services in order that towns and villages can get or maintain facilities such as bus services? Deputy Stanley mentioned the combination of services in parts of Scotland where post and bus were combined. That sort of thinking might help to overcome some of the problems that exist for towns and villages. Has there been any thought given to the question of the planning of housing in villages and small towns? If housing was focused in those places, it would help to sustain the shops and schools and churches that are declining. I am interested in the Minister of State's response to that.

I regret that the Minister of State was asked to omit the piece that she had about tourism because, for some villages, I have no doubt that this is, in the broadest sense, a possible way forward, whether that be walking, farm visits, horse riding or fishing. As the Minister of State is aware, I had a Bill on access to the countryside. Could I ask her for a commitment that she will come back to tease out the issues in that Bill more thoroughly because it is something where I believe we are losing a great deal? I will give one example. In Scotland, the Fife Coastal Path yields between £24 million and £29 million annually for the local economy as well as supporting approximately 800 local jobs. Not every walking route will be as productive as that but there is certainly scope for that. Given that we get about 750,000 tourists every year who come specifically to walk, many of them will be disappointed by their walking experience in this country notwithstanding the fact that some progress has been made. I would like if the Minister of State could give a commitment that we could discuss some of the sensitive issues that are involved in that Bill that I brought before Dáil Éireann in 2012.

My mother grew up in a village called Moynalty in north Meath, and I believe it is a very good example of what I will talk about. There is a tremendous wealth of community involvement and a willingness to help the local community. To what extent are there plans to tap into that sort of positive interest in sustaining and developing one's own community? It strikes me that that is much more apparent in rural situations than it often is in some urban communities. Are there any plans to do that? How can councils, through their involvement, effectively tap into that very important resource?

I agree with the remarks that have been made about broadband. The sooner broadband is rolled out to everywhere in the country, the better.

It is a waste of effort to complain about the demise of a Garda station or something of that nature, although it is easier for me as an urban Deputy to say this. While I can see that it is a definite loss to a town or village, given the nature of life nowadays, where people are much more mobile, it makes more sense for some of those services to be concentrated more centrally. I am interested in the Minister of State's reply to those questions.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I will deal with Deputy Stanley's issues first. I will address the broadband issue first. There is much happening in this area. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Alex White, and his Department are very determined that broadband is rolled out. I draw the committee's attention to the monthly magazine issued on the Department's website that provides information on the national broadband plan. One can go to the site and see where one's area is in the plan. It gives the updated versions of what is happening in this area.

The information on the website is quite detailed and will be beneficial for members who need to be constantly informed. The next step in the national broadband plan is the comprehensive intervention strategy, which is to be brought to Government in June, to be followed by a public consultation process over the summer and the procurement phase in the autumn. It is hoped to be in a position to select a preferred bidder by 2016. The physical build should take from three to five years to complete. It covers 750,000 premises, equivalent to 100,000 km of road and 96% of land mass.

This hugely complex and high-tech project needs to be planned in a very careful way. The Deputy compared it to the electrification of Ireland all over again. While everybody is very anxious because they cannot see anything and it is taking time for one of the largest infrastructural projects to be rolled out, I think, and perhaps the Deputy would agree with me, that rather than doing something in an ad hocway, we should plan carefully so that, like the electrification project, when the electricity is switched on it actually stays on and we do not experience flickering.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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No flickering of the broadband service.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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That is exactly what I mean. The Deputy also raised the diminution of services in rural Ireland. I am exercised about this. I know the services to which he referred. We are coming up with a protocol on the provision of services, be it Government or private services. We propose to introduce provision for a protocol whereby the service provider has a conversation with the community on the proposed changes and in order that the community gets a chance to come up with an alternative. I know that Deputy Stanley means that a person should not wake up and find that the service is no longer there and that the rug has been pulled out from under them before they have had a chance to catch their breath. We would be doing a good service for rural areas if such a protocol were put in place. I am working on it with people from Irish Rural Link and other organisations in rural Ireland that can advise me. I think we can work together to create a protocol to which service providers adhere.

I wish to speak about a bank that proposed to close its branch in a community, and which event was reported in the newspaper. The local representatives and I worked with the community, and even though the bank was lost, the community managed to consolidate the post office and the credit union service. The community will benefit from people working together to see what can be done. I have spoken to that community and they are sending me proposals on how they feel that protocol should be worked up for rural Ireland.

On the proposed cuts to service by Bus Éireann, I attended a large meeting in Castlecomer last night - I am not sure if Deputy Stanley was present - at which I listened very carefully to the concerns about the potential difficulties the community faces because of the withdrawal of the routes. The bus plays a key role in this area, bringing students to their third level colleges, people to their hospital appointments and so on and is key to connectivity. During the period of the Celtic tiger people from the capital moved to rural areas but they would like to be able to visit their family in the capital. That was one of the major points to emerge during the meeting. I took on board the concerns of the community, which we must deal with.

At that meeting Bus Éireann agreed to leave the service in place for a period up to June while the community, the National Transport Authority and other stakeholders come together in a working group to examine in detail the issues and challenges around the withdrawal of a very important public transport service. It is very important that we come up with an alternative but we need time. This comes back to my fundamental point, which Deputy Stanley was trying to make as well, on the need for a protocol to kick into place when something of this significance happens in rural Ireland, leaving the people feeling that they do not know what to do.

In their very real everyday lives, people use public transport to go to work and students use it to travel to college because their parents cannot afford to drive them to Dublin and the students cannot afford a car. One could see the anger at the meeting. People were angry about the way they heard of the withdrawal of the service. It is very important that, together with the working group, we work on a protocol to address the issues in rural parts of counties Kilkenny and Carlow and that we can apply it to any rural area. It will require tweaking for specific communities but it is a worthwhile exercise.

At last night's meeting the people of the community came together to help themselves. We would like to be able to give them the tools to help themselves in order that they can participate in the alternative service. Now the community has breathing space.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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Given the importance of the issue and the scale of the problem, which we know is replicated throughout the State, in particular in the southern part, and the Minister mentioned counties Carlow and Kilkenny, while County Laois and south Kildare are affected by it as well, will she ensure that we have a service in place after June? I acknowledge we have a breathing space, but will the Minister of State take on board my suggestion of the need for bus shelters at bus stops? We need a bus service that is user-friendly. Nobody can stand for an hour waiting for a bus when it is spilling rain. Elderly people cannot do that. That route could be a model of an integrated service.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Will the Minister of State refer to Deputy Dowds' walking Bill? I will then call the next two speakers.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Deputy Dowds initiated the Access to the Countryside Bill 2013.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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In relation to my question-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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The Minister of State should respond to Deputy Stanley in conclusion and refer to the Bill, and we will then move on.

Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State might give me a response on the bus service.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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On the bus service, I take the Deputy's point about how we learned about it. To put it mildly, I have expressed my concern about that. This is exactly what I am talking about. In rural communities, one does not go in and pull the rug out from under their feet. This caused considerable concern, anxiety and stress merely due to the lack of coming to the community and saying that we must bring people together and consult with them. I understand that people make decisions for commercial reasons but one must be sensitive to rural communities because the loss of a service there is devastating. I keep referring back to the protocol that we need to put in place involving a series of actions on how the community is consulted.

I understand this is a significant issue in counties Laois and Kildare. I do not yet have the specifics of the working group worked out. I have not decided who will be on it and who will not. I was going to leave that to the community to come to me with who it feels appropriate. I will work with the NTA as it will have to be part of the group. I was trying to leave it open to the community. I assume it will have its own community representatives on it. I was not being very prescriptive at the public meeting last night about the working group. What I wanted to achieve last night was what we got - a bit of breathing space, a bit of support to look at how we come up with an alternative and an acceptance by the community that it would look at a working group, work with me and work with the NTA to see what alternative we can produce.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Could I-----

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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No, Deputy Ó Cuív cannot. The Minister might refer to the walking Bill now and then we will move on to the next two speakers.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Deputy Dowds's walking Bill is important to him. On access to the countryside and walking Bills, there is a lot going on in the Department and we are making a lot of progress on this issue. The former Minister, the Commissioner, Mr. Hogan, wrote to this committee stating that he did not have a difficulty with the committee having a specific session to do with this Bill. I would go along with that as well. I and my officials would be available to come in and discuss that. I suppose that has more to do with the committee's agenda.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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We have it in the work programme for 2015.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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It is in the committee's work programme. I will make myself available for that.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State. I call Senator Ó Clochartaigh, followed by Senator Landy.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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I apologise for missing the Minister of State's opening statement as I was in the Seanad, although I received a copy of it. I will not go over the ground that has been covered already but there are a number of specific issues on rural proofing. Could the Minister of State tell us a little more about what she sees as rural proofing? She stated that IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland are doing rural proofing of policy. Are there metrics or guidelines for that? What exactly does the Minister of State mean by rural proofing because I asked questions of the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, on targets for rural employment and he told me that there were not any such targets. I want to find out if it means laying out certain targets. Does it mean, if they are developing policy, that they have to send it to the Minister of State in advance to have it rural proofed and checked by her officials? What are the metrics for rural proofing? I agree rural proofing is a good idea and needs to be done. It is also probably something that needs to be done by Departments as well. Does the Minister of State have any plans to ask her colleagues in Cabinet to rural proof legislation so that any legislation being brought forward would have to be run by her Department and proofed to see what the impact will be on rural areas?

On Leader funding, how much will be made available to communities this year? The Minister of State gave us a broad figure over the number of years, but what will be rolled out this year for Leader funding? Will the Minister of State take a specific look at the islands which are in a peculiar situation? They always have been run under one Leader company. The current scenario, where they are being asked to go under four different local authorities, is not practical and will not work. Is she willing to take on board the case they have made that they need to be given a specific allocation under the Leader programme?

The terminology around SICAP seems to be towards activation and job creation, etc. In its former guise, the SICAP was the LCDP and, before that, the Local Development Social Inclusion Programme, LDSIP. It was much more to do with social issues and supporting groups, such as the elderly, women, those with disabilities and those who were disadvantaged either from an educational or a geographic perspective. I wonder whether, under the new SICAP, that will be taken on board. The SICAP is probably more important to those target groups than job creation. Job creation is obviously important in rural areas but those groups have been left out.

In the previous programmes, much of the weighting in the way funding was given was based on the deprivation index, which was the Trutz Haase index, and also on the dependency ratios in each of the areas. Are such models to be used for SICAP this time around so that those with the greatest need in rural areas will avail of the funding?

The issue of accessibility is significant. It has been touched on. I appreciate it is not in the Minister of State's direct remit. How will she work with the Departments of Health, Transport, Tourism and Sport, Social Protection, Education and Skills, and Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation to ensure access to services? How does the working group plan that? How often does it meet and what guidelines and protocols are put in place between the Minister of State and those Department?

I note the rural recreation and the walks, but I hear there is considerable opposition from landowners to the plan in train as regards rural recreation. I wonder if the Minister of State has any comments on that?

Denis Landy (Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Ann Phelan, to the committee. Regarding Bus Éireann, I support what the Minister of State said that the way this was announced was unacceptable. In fact, it was not announced at all; I heard it through local drivers. Tipperary is affected by this as well. It is not within the Minister of State's remit directly, but it has fallen to her now. I ask that she bring a message from this committee to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Donohoe, that a working group should be set up on a national basis to look at all of the changes that Bus Éireann proposes and that those of us from the various areas affected would be included. It is unacceptable, as the Minister of State said, that the rug was pulled from under us. I understand Bus Éireann has a commercial requirement to make it pay but the company also gets approximately €35 million a year of taxpayers' money for the PSO service. It cannot merely wash its hands of what it is attempting to do here. I ask that the Minister of State request the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, to set up a working group that deals with all of the areas that will be affected. That is more feasible. I understand there was a meeting last night in the Minister of State's constituency and, as a result, a working group is to be set up, but it needs to be broad.

On the 34 actions of CEDRA, I welcomed the CEDRA report when it was published. In the debate in the Seanad on the matter, I suggested to the Minister of State that in the time available to her she would not be able to put 34 actions into play. She mentioned that she is looking at the CEDRA report. Can she be a little more specific about the areas she intends to put into use and what part of CEDRA she will actualise in the next couple of months?

I agree with a previous speaker who stated that the rural development fund is too low at €1 million. I think the Minister of State would agree if I pressed her, but I will not. In any event, she mentioned one idea that she has worked on with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, in her report. What other ideas are being discussed for the use of this fund? Can she be a little more specific on it?

I totally agree with Senator Ó Clochartaigh about SICAP and the programme's predecessors. I will ask the question plainly. Is SICAP a follow-on from LCDP or will there be changes? Will there be a different emphasis? If so, what will that be?

In the context of the roll-out of the rural development programme, there is €250 million between 2014 and 2020.

I sat on a Leader programme board for quite a number of years and we always had a specific emphasis when putting together a funding programme. Will it be possible for locals to emphasise tourism, agritourism or walking trails, for example? Will local Leader boards that take on this task have leverage and autonomy for a specific local area?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I will speak on the subject of rural proofing. When I was given this role, among the first groups I met were IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland. I used to hear that the role of IDA and Enterprise Ireland was just to get the jobs into the country and that where the jobs went after that was not entirely their responsibility. I was very pleasantly surprised when they told me that rural Ireland is very much in their sights. I asked them to specifically include rural Ireland in their business plans for bringing jobs to Ireland and they told me they would do so. I have asked the Departments on my interdepartmental group to ensure that rural Ireland is specifically included in policy and I have also taken this request to the local authorities. The new local enterprise office structure, with regard to the new development and community plans, take specific account of the very rural parts of their counties when the new regional structures are being put in place.

The Minister, Deputy Bruton, stated that no specific targets had been set. We are looking at the whole alignment process and the delivery to rural Ireland at government level, at regional level and at my own level, which is very much down in the community. The Action Plan for Jobs mentions CEDRA, the development of enterprise zones and the creation of jobs in rural areas. While the Minister, Deputy Bruton, may be looking at delivering very large job announcements, I am looking at the type of rural area that I come from, where the creation of five jobs in a particular rural community would be extremely welcome.

I will refer to tourism because I think that tourism has great potential for delivering jobs in Ireland, and particularly in rural Ireland. These are sustainable jobs because they are jobs created out of the environment in which people live. We are looking at all areas of tourism and we have spoken to all the agencies informing them that all of their policies must contain reference to rural proofing. What I mean by rural proofing is that any new policies must have a reference to rural Ireland.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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Has the Minister of State provided guidelines on how rural proofing should be included in their policies? How does it work?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I am not necessarily very prescriptive with the particular Departments, but the interdepartmental group is working in a parallel process on developing a strategy for rural Ireland. It is happening within the timeline for 2015 and the approach is one of "suck it and see". The evidence from the pilot programmes will inform the policies. I not being hugely prescriptive at this point. The pilot schemes will provide the underlying policy for job creation in rural Ireland.

The Leader groups will have local autonomy, and they will be the local action group. The LCDC structure is providing the alignment process. We will be looking for expressions of interest very soon and we hope to be handing out the money in the autumn. Expressions of interest are imminent. I am a little hampered in speaking about SICAP because there is a tendering process under way and the decisions are imminent. I do not wish to say anything that might cause any difficulties down the line. If the Senator could bear with me I will come back to him.

Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein)
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The issue of the islands relates to the Leader programme.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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No intrusions, thank you, Senator.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We understand completely about the situation with regard to the islands. I have met people from the islands and I have heard their concerns. It is proposed that the islands will be looked after under the local authority and the LCDC structure. The alignment process will mean that everything has to fit into this local authority structure. The local authority will be responsible for the offshore islands within its local authority area, and this will be written into the local development strategy. We will be very specific with the local authorities that island issues can and will be catered for in that local development strategy. The alignment process and the legislation has happened. The islands will be looked after through the local development strategies in each specific local authority, but we will be watching that and making sure that they are being looked after.

Denis Landy (Labour)
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What actions does the Minister of State envisage?

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We envisage actions around the development of the rural economic development zones, REDZs. These will designate parts of the country as areas that need to be energised, which will get all the required government supports. We will bombard an area with government supports, working with the local authorities and with the State agencies to see how we can deliver jobs in that area. We will be announcing a REDZ pilot scheme very soon and we hope to expand the scheme to almost all areas.

Most of Ireland has been designated, in some shape or form, as a potential rural economic development zone. What my officials and I have to do is look at the REDZ criteria that need to be signed off. My vision for rural Ireland is the creation of jobs using the potential of communities themselves to keep the people in the community. If we create a number of sustainable jobs linked to the environment through tourism, agritourism, engagement with the hinterland and its potential to deliver jobs, then this is how communities will support their local schools, local post offices, pubs and supermarkets. Development of the RED zones, along with a myriad of other things which will happen in parallel, is my priority in the time that is left.

Terry Brennan (Fine Gael)
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I also congratulate the Minister of State, who has worked hard on this committee for quite a while. I agree fully with her that these issues will take time to address. Communities themselves know the issues and what they want in their communities, no matter what part of Ireland one goes to. Most of them are prepared to play their part, and will play a part, to develop their communities. They want to be involved in decision making on what is best for their own community. The announcement of €250 million for rural communities in the next five to six years is welcome.

The Minister of State is aware of the enormous challenges out there for rural communities. Broadband and rural electrification was mentioned. It took less than 30 years to complete the rural electrification of the entire country on a planned phased basis. The analogy has been drawn on several occasions but I hope we are not waiting that length of time for broadband.

I would like the opportunity for rural communities to help themselves, as mentioned by Deputy Dowds. There is phenomenal talent, professionalism and volunteerism out there. They recognise what is best for their community. I will give two small instances. Last week I was pleased to read of a community initiative in Loop Head, spearheaded by a colleague of mine, Gabriel Keating, over six or seven years. It is now the only place in Ireland that is named in the global top 100 green sustainable destinations. This is a major achievement for a small community, which makes it a nicer place to live and ensures it is part of the tourism industry in this country. There is wonderful talent out there and we must tap into the communities that have a proven track record of helping themselves. We have to help all communities, but I believe people who show their dedication through Tidy Towns, community councils and so on, should be listened to.

In conclusion, I would like to give an instance of a cross-border community achievement. I live in Carlingford. The only time one hears about my own famous lough is when the wind starts to blow, but it has been designated the adventure capital of the country. Two communities, on both sides of the border, came together and advertised what they have on offer in both land and sea sporting facilities in their respective communities. It is a wonderful cross-border achievement. There is talent and will out there. We must tap into it. As the Minister of State says, tourism has provided jobs in the last four or five years, and there are more jobs out there. I ask for her indulgence and co-operation wherever she can.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to welcome the Minister of State to the committee. Unfortunately for her, in the last year of office, she has come too late to the job.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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Excuse me, Deputy, but I gave colleagues instructions to ask questions.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Let me explain. I come from urban Ireland, down the road from here in Dublin 4. I went to Connemara, and on the site we purchased in 1975, 300 jobs were created. There are a lot of issues in rural Ireland that we are not dealing with realistically. The first issue I want raise is that of towns, villages and the hinterland, as if the rest is some kind of wasteland that we keep for the birds and the bees. Do we see rural communities as intrinsic communities within themselves? Just because people do not have big or small back gardens, that does not mean it is not just as valid a way of living as any other. Traditionally the Labour Party has been opposed to rural communities as I understand them - that is, the scattered community which lives in the townland and the parish - preferring to see everybody circled in a village.

The second issue is the absolute nonsense that the more people who live in the village, the more people you have for shops and schools. The total population in a given area is what determines the use of shops and schools. It makes no difference if they all live in the village or in the area. It makes no difference in terms of the numbers for the schools and shops. I believe it is important to have that debate. The spatial strategy people and the Labour Party people have tried to denude the Corofins and the Ballyheigues of this world. They have been trying to denude those rural areas and those one-off houses, and I think it is a big pity, because we know that in the scattered communities of rural Ireland we get exceptionally good social and educational outcomes.

Does the Government intend to increase the number of places on the rural social scheme? It is a very important scheme in rural Ireland for providing services. There is a massive lack of micro-infrastructure in rural Ireland. When I was a Minister there was a problem ensuring that the last remaining houses in Ireland that were not connected to a group water scheme or a mains scheme would be connected. We also dealt with small village sewerage schemes. Has the Minister of State any ideas about leveraging funds for micro-infrastructure? We have also had the demise of the local improvement schemes, which put roads into areas of houses where the local authorities never took over the roads. I also wish to ask about broadband. Everybody in urban Ireland is now getting 100 megabits per second, either through fibre optic or cable connections. Does the Government plan to bring fibre optic connections to every home?

Will the officials check what is the subsidy provided to Bus Éireann and Bus Átha Cliath on a per capitabasis? While one would expect economies of scale to be achieved in Dublin, I understand that, per capita, the grant to Bus Átha Cliath is four times higher than that provided to Bus Éireann. We then wonder why there are no services in rural areas. The withdrawal of bus services will result in job losses.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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The Deputy has 20 seconds of speaking time remaining.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Chairman to indulge me for a moment. On rural employment, why start with the most difficult challenge of securing IDA-supported jobs, given that these are the most difficult jobs to deliver in rural areas? There are many easier options available. For example, we have the options of retaining services and the jobs that go with them or decentralising all new State jobs. A water grant of €100 is to be paid out to water users. Why establish Irish Water in an urban area where people cannot buy houses, when we could create Irish Water jobs in rural areas?

Another option is to reverse the reduction in Leader funding.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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We could also exploit the export potential of resource industries, such as the dairy, beef and extractive forestry sectors. Other options include investment in break-out industries and indigenous entrepreneurs and the potential to create 6,000 jobs in rural recreation and marine leisure. I note all the points made under the heading "Rural Recreation". When I left the Department five years ago, there were two rural recreation projects in place, including in respect of Carrauntoohil. No progress has been made in the period since. I hope the Minister of State will be able to advance that issue.

I do not believe in rural proofing. We already have a tick-box exercise for gender proofing where everyone ticks the relevant box at the end of Government memorandums. These are paper exercises and a total waste of time.

I am devastated by the inference in the Minister of State's comments to me and Senator Ó Clochartaigh that Comhar na nOileán from Inis Oírr will no longer provide the ferry service on the Aran Islands. If Comhar na nOileán does not provide this service, not only will the Government do a disservice to all the islands, but it will destroy the most vibrant wealth of the community in the whole country, namely, that on Inis Oírr.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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If the Minister of State does not have information to hand on any of the issues raised, she may circulate it to Deputy Ó Cuív in the next couple of days.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I will have to revert to the Deputy on passenger numbers and subventions for Bus Éireann and Dublin Bus. To respond to his question on whether the Government is promising a fibre connection to every home, the answer is "No". The national broadband plan envisages dealing conclusively with the rural connectivity issues in order that the current generation and future generations will have guaranteed access to high-quality, high-speed broadband. The network we wish to see built will, therefore, be scalable and capable of meeting future anticipated traffic growth. Whatever the technology used, it must ensure users have a minimum service of 30 Mbps. I cannot speak to the technical aspects because I am not an engineer or expert on the technicalities involved.

I fully understand the comments made on the rural social scheme, on which I have communicated with the Department of Social Protection. I am well aware of the benefits of the scheme, including in my area. I have written to the Department of Social Protection asking that it consider increasing funding for the scheme. While I have not yet received a response, we are working on the issue, which is worth pursuing.

On micro-structures, this matter will be addressed at local authority level under the local enterprise office or LEO structure. This is the correct mechanism in which to deal with the issue.

On forestry and rural employment, these issues will be addressed in detail in local area plans. While I am not opposed to examining any of these issue, I must work in conjunction with the local enterprise offices and the new local economic development plans that are under consideration.

I am not saying that the Comhar na nOileán service will close or anything of that nature. We are aware of the issues facing the islands and we are managing the process. I explained previously that I am hampered by the legal issues arising from the social inclusion and community activation programme, SICAP. An announcement on the SICAP is imminent and I could revert to the joint committee-----

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I was not referring to the SICAP process.

Ann Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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My apologies. The Deputy was referring to the Leader programme. These matters are being addressed under the local community development committee, LCDC, structure. Given that the relevant legislation has been passed, this is a done deal and these matters will be addressed by the local authorities. I am not in the business of getting rid of anything or doing down anybody. We have communicated with the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to identify how we can manage the process. I have informed the Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh, of the concerns that arise in this regard and we agreed to work together to deliver the best possible outcome for the islands. I am not trying to do down the islands. We want to manage the process into the future. The islands are very close to my heart.

Michael McCarthy (Cork South West, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State and her officials for their engagement, which is much appreciated. I look forward to further discussions with them on a myriad of issues and wish the Minister of State well in her role.