Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome Mr. McCarthy. We are usually accused of navel gazing but today we are gazing into a crystal ball. The debate is interesting. If Britain were to leave the European Union, it would be a disaster for Ireland. Senator Terry Leyden says the British would be mad to do so, but there is also the expression about mad dogs and Englishmen out in the midday sun. Britain might well take that route. If that scenario were to happen, we must focus on what we should be doing in the run-up to it. Mr. McCarthy says Ireland should be involved in negotiations on its exit. Is there anything else we could do? As Britain is Ireland's largest trading partner, should we line up a free trade agreement similar to the one we had in the past? There is synergy and also, as Mr. McCarthy pointed out, an historical aspect to the relationship, as well as a trade aspect.

It would be a disaster for the peace process in the sense that we are selling the island as an all-island economy. What impact would it have in that regard? It would have an impact on ordinary people's lives. At the height of the Troubles people were crossing back and forth. It would change the dynamic if we were talking about an external border as happened in the early days of the State when there was more of a frontier mentality.

Mr. McCarthy referred to the negotiations. There is almost an arrogance among the Tories that they will come out with a good deal, as they are talking about getting a favourable deal. If a decision is made, will it strengthen or weaken their hand? An element will say Britain was never really part of Europe. Mr. McCarthy referred to the City of London. At one stage the Germans would have loved to have had the City based in Germany.

With regard to fortress Ireland, dealing with foot and mouth disease and animal health issues, we sell the island of Ireland from the aspect of tourism. This is because Ireland is a small country and there would be ramifications. We must sell it on the basis of the impact it would have on Ireland and Britain, rather than on the wider European Union. Does Mr. McCarthy agree that this is the way to sell it? There would be a major impact in places such as Lifford, Strabane, Blacklion, Belcoo, Newry and Dundalk.

Does Mr. McCarthy think it was a mistake for the then President of the European Commission, José Manuel Barroso, to become involved in the Scottish referendum? Mr. Juncker has become involved in the Greek issue. Did it sour things in Scotland with the pro-independence parties? What would be the impact on the EU budget if Britain were to leave? We argue that the budget is not big enough to deal with current problems. Britain moving closer to America makes sense, but I am more interested in what the impact would be on our small country.

It is understandable that people in Europe are sceptical about the way Europe is developing. That is a legitimate concern for people in Britain and anywhere else. We need to take those concerns about its development as a union on board. Does Mr. McCarthy think the model that is developing is part of the problem?