David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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This part of the meeting has been convened to allow the select committee to consider the Revised Estimates for Vote 20 - Garda Síochána, Vote 21 - Prisons, Vote 22 - Courts Service, Vote 23 - Property Registration Authority, Vote 24 - Justice and Equality and Vote 25 - Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission. The briefing has been circulated to members.

I welcome the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald, and her officials to the meeting. I understand that the Minister has a brief opening statement, which will be followed by questions and comments from members.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the opportunity to meet the committee as it considers the 2015 Revised Estimates for my Department's group of Votes, which were published in December. Before going into some of the detail of the Estimate provision across the six Votes which come under the Department of Justice and Equality, I want to make a number of headline points at the outset.

The gross Estimate provision for the justice Vote in 2015 is €2.313 billion, an increase of €50.9 million on the Estimates published on budget day in October. While the further increase includes provision for the cost of an additional pay day across the sector, in common with the public sector generally, I am particularly pleased that the increase also includes additional funding of €1.7 million for the Office of Data Protection Commissioner and €2.5 million in social disadvantage measures under dormant accounts funding.

The key point is that the gross allocation of €2.313 billion is an increase of over €129 million, or 6%, on the corresponding Revised Estimate allocation for 2014. The increase is even higher when compared to the original published expenditure ceiling of €2.122 billion for 2015. The increased funding is €191 million compared with this provision. Irrespective of the metrics used, I am pleased that the justice sector is starting the year in a stronger financial position than this time last year. Obviously, this is a direct consequence of the improved economic position that we find ourselves in.

Almost 64% of the entire justice Vote group gross allocation is provided to An Garda Síochána. The total gross expenditure allocation for the Garda Vote in 2015 is almost €1.469 billion. The pay and superannuation component amounts to 88% of the gross current expenditure allocation. The strength of the Garda force at 31 December 2014 was 12,799 members. As Deputies will be aware, there are currently an additional 300 student gardaí in training in Templemore. There are also 1,110 Garda Reserve members, with a further 46 in training. Essential support services in An Garda Síochána are provided now by over 2,000 civilian staff, which is quite a large figure compared to some years ago, and is in line with the civilianisation policy. I have had an opportunity to talk about this in the Dáil, so I will not go into too much detail here. I am pleased that we have 300 recruits in Templemore. The initial group will be coming out into the community in May of this year. That will be followed later in the year by the other two groups who are in training.

While the provision of personnel - both uniform members and civilian staff - is a significant factor in the Garda Síochána's ability to deliver on its expenditure programme while working with communities to protect and serve, there are other crucial funding areas within the Vote which require investment to support the work of the members of An Garda Síochána at all levels. Obviously, funding for the fleet is an important part of that. As Deputies will be familiar with this, I will not give too much detail on it except to say that we now have provided €27.5 million in the period from 2012 to 2015, which obviously includes the €10 million provided towards the end of last year, so that Garda cars can come on stream now, going into the new year. Obviously, that is quite a contrast with the situation when the economy was experiencing difficulties. In an earlier period - between 2009 and 2011 - only €4.8 million was provided. That, obviously, was a direct result of the economic situation at that time. As I said, it is the newly improved economic situation, although much work remains to be done, that has allowed us to make this much-needed investment in the fleet, which, in turn, should help in protecting communities. So many criminal gangs are mobile and are using the road transport network. Effectively, the Garda needs to have the kind of vehicles that are necessary in order to have that visible policing presence to deal with a range of issues.

It is clear from the Garda Inspectorate report that ICT needs to be a priority area, and €3 million extra was given for this. A much broader-based approach is needed in meeting the ICT needs of An Garda Síochána at this time. If Deputies would like more information on the structure I have in place in relation to the working group to identify the ICT needs of An Garda Síochána, I can certainly give that.

There is a new subhead in the Garda Vote in respect of a capital building programme. There are a number of projects, in conjunction with OPW, for the construction of three new Garda headquarters, in Kevin Street in Dublin city and in Galway and Wexford. It is expected that work will commence on the Kevin Street project shortly and tenders are currently being evaluated for the Galway project. The tender process for Wexford is also at an advanced stage. These will be built over the next three years, with additional capital funding to be provided in 2016 and 2017. These are vital investments.

As Deputies in this committee will be aware, this is a time of ongoing reform and change, and we are moving into an era in which there will be a central role for the new policing authority and the Garda Commissioner in implementing the reforms that have been identified. Clearly, the Garda Síochána has already started on some of those interim changes. Obviously, as the inspectorate report stated, short-, medium- and longer-term reforms are necessary.

I take this opportunity to acknowledge the outstanding work being carried out by many members of An Garda Síochána. Every time I talk about the work of the Garda Síochána I always say that 86 of them have lost their lives in protecting this country and our communities. Every day when they go out they face dangers, and we can never forget that.

There is much work going on in disrupting criminal gangs and human traffickers, and that is apparent through the work that is being done at present. The gardaí are getting on with the day-to-day work all the time, with an increasing focus on victims of crime in a year when we hope to bring in the EU victims directive.

There is a gross allocation of €373 million available to the justice and equality programme, and that is broken down into six separate programmes.

I set out briefly that the range of programmes covers secure Ireland, working for safe communities, organisations which facilitate the provision and administration of justice, the equality and integration area, representing Ireland's interests abroad and contributing to economic recovery. Programme A includes expenditure on GSOC, for which body an additional €1 million has been provided in respect of its expanded remit. That brings GSOC's budget to more than €9 million in 2015. Start-up funding of €500,000 for the new independent policing authority will provide for its establishment once the legislation is in place. We will have the legislation by Easter.

Programme B includes funding for the Probation Service, services for victims of crime and the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner, funds for which have been increased. Programme C provides funding for commissions and special inquiries. It also covers the marriage equality referendum, for which the sum of €1.5 million has been set aside. We have also allowed €500,000 for the start-up costs of the legal services regulatory authority.

The total funding available to the Department for the promotion of equality and integration is approximately €3.3 million, including €2.8 million for the youth justice service's community programmes. These programmes, as well as diversion programmes, will benefit from the increased funding from the dormant accounts fund which can now be used. We are hoping to develop a number of new youth diversion programmes nationally. They will be based on the needs of areas and population profiles and should make quite a difference.

Programme F covers property services and the Insolvency Service of Ireland, on which I will not delay. We discussed the service in the Dáil earlier today and I am happy to answers questions members might have.

The prison Vote this year is €326 million and the largest element of the allocation is for capital building works, for which €27.1 million is being provided in 2015, a great deal of which will go towards completing the new Cork Prison which is scheduled for completion in quarter 3 of 2015. The modernisation project in Mountjoy Prison is also on schedule. A number of other refurbishments are needed within the Irish Prison Service which I hope we will be in a position to address incrementally to ensure standards are at an appropriate level. This was a point made to us by the committee on torture when it visited Ireland.

The Vote for the Courts Service is being increased by €2 million in terms of current expenditure when compared with the allocation in 2014. The additional funding is to support the implementation of ongoing reforms in the courts, including the establishment and operation of the Court of Appeal. In addition, it was also possible to retain in 2015 a once-off capital allocation of €2 million which had been provided in 2014. This is additional capital funding which can be used in 2015 to complete work in respect of the Court of Appeal and facilitate further investment in courthouses and ICT systems in the Courts Service. Further ICT development is necessary to improve the efficiency of the Courts Service. The Court of Appeal sat for the first time on 5 November 2014 and is dealing with a great deal of work. There have been some inaccurate reports on the work of the court, which is making a difference to waiting lists. A good number of cases have been referred to it and dealt with and it is having an impact in terms of access to justice, which is extremely important.

A number of public private partnerships are being developed in the construction and refurbishment of seven courthouses in Letterkenny, Drogheda, Mullingar, Limerick city, Wexford town, Waterford city and Anglesea Street in Cork, on which construction will commence later this year. The Criminal Courts of Justice complex at Parkgate Street was provided using the public-private partnership mechanism.

The Property Registration Authority has a budget of €31.28 million and also comes under the Department. I published proposed changes in the authority in the heads and general scheme of the Tailte Éireann Bill. Tailte Éireann is a new organisation which will have responsibility for many important functions, including the State's property registration system, the State's mapping and surveying infrastructure, the State's property valuation service, the development and maintenance of the State's geospatial information, applications for the purchase of ground rents and ensuring the proper functioning of the Valuation Tribunal. Clearly, the three relevant organisations manage what is probably the most comprehensive set of property and spatial data in Ireland.

The sixth and final Vote in the justice group is the newly established Vote for the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission. The organisation now has its own dedicated Vote of €6.3 million. The establishment of a stand-alone Vote reaffirms the independence of the new body which was formally established on 1 November 2014. The budget will help the organisation to get up and running and put in place the appropriate administrative and operational functions. We will continue to work with the commission and review and evaluate how the budget works for it. I have told it that we are open to reviewing the budget as the need arises.

The total Estimate for the justice sector in 2015 is more than €2.313 billion in gross terms and €2.066 billion in net terms. As I have set out, it covers six Votes across a broad range of areas within the justice and equality sector. The budget will be kept under review during the course of the year and any necessary reprioritisation of resources will take place as far as is practical as we progress through the year. I am happy to take questions on the budget.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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If colleagues agree, we will go through each subhead one by one. If any member wants to ask a question as we reach each subhead, he or she may do so. Otherwise, if members prefer, they can approach the Estimate by way of general omnibus questions.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I would prefer to do it in a general way.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I prefer general.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Members just want to make speeches and be done with it. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I apologise to the Minister for having to leave at 4 p.m. to chair the Joint Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions. I thank her for her presentation. The Vote for the justice and equality sector is €373,092 for 2015 which is less than the budget figure for 2014. Why is that?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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There were a number of technical adjustments to the Estimate, including the transfer of more than €6 million to the new Vote for the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission. There was a further transfer of €2.5 million from the Department of Justice and Equality to the Vote for the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform for the migration of payroll services to its new payroll shared services centre. Last year there was a provision in the Estimate for the Magdalen laundries of €23 million, most of which has been paid. The disbursed amount is €18 million. The Estimate provision in that regard is €11.5 million this year. For the most part, it was possible to retain the budget at 2014 levels for practically all subheads in the justice and equality Vote. I will not go into the details, but there were increases in a number of areas, as I have outlined.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Across the headings overall, it is pretty much as you were; there are no real increases.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The exceptions are GSOC which received an increase and the Garda Inspectorate.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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That takes me to my next question, which is on GSOC. The Government has asked it to examine the penalty points issue. A major investigation has to be undertaken in that respect. We will also be giving GSOC additional powers when the Garda Síochána (Amendment) (No. 3) Bill is passed today. That will entail the provision of more resources.

Is the Minister satisfied that the resources provided to GSOC will enable it to meet the new enhanced responsibilities we have asked it to undertake?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I am in regular contact with GSOC. I have regular meetings with it and keep its budget under review. When it was asked to do extra work on penalty points there were budgetary implications in terms of recruiting extra staff and that is why we gave the increase. Let me go into detail with the Deputy. A sum of €1 million has been allowed for in this Estimate. I said I would keep the budget under review, as one has to. If it comes to my attention that GSOC needs more funding I will be open to discussing the matter with it. GSOC's current staffing level is 76 and there are nine vacancies. The overall payroll cost for 2015 is estimated to be €5.45 million which includes provision for three commissioners and two seconded Garda superintendents. We are giving GSOC increased powers and I will keep funding under review. The €1 million allocation was specifically provided to deal with its work on penalty points work and the recruitment of new staff.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Minister monitor the situation to see if GSOC needs more money?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I will, yes.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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My final question is on Garda numbers. There are 300 recruits in Templemore. If one factors in the number of gardaí that will retire this year we will not exceed the 13,000 threshold. The previous Garda Commissioner, Mr. Martin Callinan, famously said that if the number went below 13,000 he would not be able to deliver what was required. Are there plans for further recruitment this year?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The 300 recruits will make a difference and the first lot of recruits will pass out in May. I was delighted to open the recruitment programme again because it had not been opened since 2009. We have a very enthusiastic group of trainees and a huge number of people applied to join the Garda.

As I have said, I want ongoing seamless recruitment because that is the best way of ensuring we have new people joining. We also want to make sure we keep training people at Templemore College and ensure the right number of people are trained. There is an ideal number of students that the college likes to train every year. As recruits begin to leave Templemore, and there is a possibility that training will continue for new recruits, I will have discussions with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform on the matter. As Deputy Mac Lochlainn rightly stated, a key aspect of planning is the number of gardaí who retire and anticipating that number.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister and her assistants for her presentation.

I have received a couple of emails from new recruits in Templemore. The Minister has stressed her delight - and my party and I are delighted to see them - at their eagerness to get going in the job. The recruits are concerned about their salary. A couple of new recruits have informed me that their salary on leaving Templemore will be €23,171 gross. They pointed out that the last time recruits left Templemore was in 2009 when the salary was €27,000 plus €4,000 rent allowance. I accept there have been pay cuts for everybody across the public service between 2009 and the present date. The recruits made the point that they are out of pocket in terms of the €4,000 rent allowance, which is a significant amount of money. They pointed out in their e-mails that the slogan of An Garda Síochána is "A fair day's pay for a fair day's work." When the recruits pass out and are placed in the community they will not be on the same rate of pay as other recruits heretofore. I would like the Minister to give an explanation for the difference in pay.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Gardaí are paid a number of allowances on top of their basic salary, as the Deputy will know. The allowances amount to between 25% and 33% of gross pay and for the most part they have been in existence for a number of years.

I shall give the background to the issue. In September 2012, following the review of public service allowances and premium payments, the Government decided to abolish certain allowances including the rent allowances for all new beneficiaries in the public service. That included the Fire Service, the Irish Prison Service and An Garda Síochána. Obviously the aim of the review was to contain or reduce pay-related costs in the delivery of services. The saving to the Exchequer at that point was €475 million per annum. A business case was presented by An Garda Síochána to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform for retention of the allowances under review, including the rent allowance.

The rent allowance was first provided in 1926. The main reason for the provision of the allowance was to support gardaí who were moved around the country. The costs currently for those members who do get the allowance is €50 million per annum and it is worth over €4,017 per member. As I said, its abolition was one of the actions taken to deal with the economic situation at the time. I appreciate the points made by the Deputy but there are no plans to review the situation at present.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has answered my follow up question and stated she has no plans to review it at present.

I wish to mention those who serve in the Garda Reserve, an issue that I have mentioned to the Minister at least once. We have received a lot of communications from people in the reserve. There is a growing frustration among the present body of Garda Reserves because there was not enough career progression in the most recent recruitment campaign. I accept that a recruitment campaign must be run in an open and competitive basis. With the advent of an independent police authority, does the Minister think we should look at how other jurisdictions allow reserve forces to act as an entry point for policing organisations? The Garda Reserve comprises a complement of people who could be used as an entry point for An Garda Síochana. Has she given any thought to such an initiative?

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Deputy want the Minister to respond to his questions now?

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to raise a few more issues. Some of those in the Garda Reserve work a small number of hours but the vast majority work a lot of hours. Could the annual stipend paid to them be reviewed given the improving financial circumstances and the increased Vote for An Garda Síochána?

Finally, I have received a number of communications from members of the public who have applied to join the Garda Reserve. One can apply to become a member of the reserve at any time but people have told me that the process is very slow. Can the Department of Justice and Equality or An Garda Síochána expedite the matter? There are many people who want to give their time and help civic society. The applicants want to get into the system a lot quicker.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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There are currently 1,100 attested reserve gardaí, with a further 46 at various stages of training.

The Deputy posed an interesting question regarding the process. He asked whether it would be possible to stream the entry of members of the Garda Reserve into An Garda Síochána. I am sure their work in the reserve will be deemed good experience to have on their CV during the interview process. I can confirm that 40 members of the Garda Reserve have become full-time members of An Garda Síochána and a further 13 joined on 2 February which shows there has been some career progression. People with experience of the Garda Reserve have become Garda recruits.

I have had some discussions in regards to this matter and it is an area that could be developed further, as the Deputy suggested. To anticipate that the Garda Reserve would become a direct route into the Garda Síochána probably would not be the first step. We could begin discussions on how to develop his idea. We are at that point and I hope to have some further with the Garda Commissioner in regard to it.

I wish to make an important point about the Garda Reserve.

Given the kind of country we are now and the multiculturalism and diversity we have, the reserve has been notably successfully in attracting non-Irish nationals to its ranks. A total of 67 reserve members or trainees are non-Irish nationals originally from a wide range of countries. This brings a welcome richness to the force in terms of community policing and working with minority groups.

The Deputy made the point about pay previously. I do not have plans to increase it but I will keep it under review.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Garda reserves do not have a representative body and consideration needs to be given this, since there is a considerable number of them. A senior officer in the Phoenix Park is their contact person. The officer goes around and meets them individually or in groups. If the Minister is thinking along the lines she has outlined, a mechanism will have to be worked out to afford them representation in a structured format.

She highlighted in her opening contribution that a number of courthouses are progressing in Letterkenny, Drogheda, Mullingar, Limerick city and Wexford town through PPP arrangements. Have those projects travelled a journey through the National Development Finance Agency? Are the PPP partners signed up and ready to go? Is the finance available once the tender process is completed?

Will the Minister outline the process she will follow to head hunt for the vacancy in GSOC at commissioner level?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked earlier about the delays in respect of recruitment to the Garda Reserve. Reserves go through the public appointments system. The Public Appointments Service has been asked to fill many vacancies recently and the delay is the result of the volume of work the service has. A number of vacancies have been advertised while promotions have been dealt with, although that was done through a different system. Quite a number of appointments are going through PAS and it is a question of the capacity of PAS to respond and to run competitions.

With regard to the PPPs, the Part 9 planning process has been completed for all seven locations. The procurement process has been commenced by the NDFA for all the projects following approval by the Department.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Is that the procurement of a PPP funding partner?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Yes, probably a consortium. The pre-qualification process for potential tenders was completed over the summer. Four consortia pre-qualified to tender for the bundle of projects. An invitation to tender was issued to them in October 2014 and a series of consultation meetings on technical, legal, commercial and insurance issues is under way. Tenders will be submitted in next month following which a preferred bidder will be selected. Following a period of negotiation, it is expected that a contract could be concluded by next October with construction to commence shortly afterwards. The contract will, hopefully, be completed in October. The seven PPP projects are being planned as a single bundle. All sites will be under construction at the same time with a period of up 24 months of completion. The time required will vary by site. It is positive that we will have new modern courthouses in the seven locations I mentioned.

The Government has not made a final decision regarding the GSOC vacancy. The person who is appointed to the post of chairman will complete the term remaining as opposed to being given a new five-year term. The time remaining is approximately a year and a half.

Niall Collins (Limerick, Fianna Fail)
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Will the post be advertised?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Government has not decided yet on the approach to the nomination of the chairman of GSOC.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I welcome the Minister and her staff. I refer to the additional €2.5 million being made available for social disadvantage measures under dormant account funding. What measures will that be used for? Has an audit ever been conducted on the impact of these measures in socially disadvantaged areas? Are they working? For example, if DEIS schools are given money, they are audited to ascertain the impact of the funding. We should all be cognisant of this.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I know from previous experience as Minister for Children and Youth Affairs that Garda youth diversion projects are a valuable input. There has been a good decrease in the numbers of young people, for example, who are in detention or coming into contact with the Prison Service. Youth diversion programmes are working well. A value for money study was conducted on them some time ago. I am pleased money has become available from the Dormant Accounts Fund. The money is intended to make sure the projects under way continue and are developed and to allow for the development of between ten and 12 new youth diversion projects around the country. The Department is currently assessing where those projects should be. That will be based on good research conducted by staff working in this area. They have looked at areas with a high offending rate and large youth populations and at where it is felt putting in a project will have most benefit for the community and young people. That analysis is under way and I hope to make an announcement in the next few weeks. It will mean that we will have at least an additional ten to 12 projects.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The fact that the Minister is seeking to develop new projects means she feels they provide value for money.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Yes. There is always room for improvement and one of the issues that came up in the value for money study was that, for example, the location of the projects needed to be based on a series of criteria. Useful work has been done on analysing the areas where the projects should be run and it is based on a research project by a team that works on youth diversion. The locations for the new projects and for additional youth justice workers have been selected on the basis of the various factors identified in the research, including increases in the youth population and levels of youth crime. I hope to make the announcement regarding the additional projects in the coming weeks once the work is completed. It is being done on an objective basis, with reference to where the need is and where the services can best work. We want to strengthen the projects in place as well to make sure they can continue.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister said in her opening contribution that the key point is the gross allocation of €2.13 billion, an increase of 6% or €129 million. The strength of the Garda is currently 12,799. As a Minister interested in reform and modernising the police force, what is her target for Garda strength?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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What works best in an organisation such as An Garda Síochána is ongoing seamless recruitment, which is the phrase I use, because that allows the college in Templemore to plan its work and training, including the supervised work the trainees are doing, and then make arrangements for them to go out into the community. We have to be careful. We need to be aware that the Garda Síochána Inspectorate report identified that there have been periods when gardaí who were being trained at particular points did not have the kind of supervision and training that was required when coming into the force. The Garda Síochána Inspectorate report emphasised that that kind of supervision was very important. With our ongoing recruitment, we need to ensure that all these issues are taken into account.

In response to the Deputy's question, one must take into account factors such as the pace of civilianisation. We have an extra 42 staff who went out to work in Dublin Airport two weeks ago. The Government, at present, is clearly committed to the 13,000 figure. Clearly, the precise numbers needed are an operational matter to keep under review.

The Garda Síochána Inspectorate stated that further analysis needs to be done on the overall numbers, taking into account geographical need and crime levels, to have best allocation of staff around the country. I am very supportive of ongoing continuous recruitment, a matter I will discuss with the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin. I feel that is the way to go, and our communities need it in order to protect the public as well as obviously dealing with issues such as international security, international terrorism and the increasing amount of cybercrime. It is very important that the Garda has access to the specialists that are needed, given the increasing sophistication of criminals using the Internet and using modern methods of communication in order to commit crime. We see this in the areas of trafficking, pharmaceuticals and a whole range of areas - not least terrorism. Obviously the Garda Commissioner needs to be able to deploy gardaí to those specialist positions as well as to the front-line community policing that is so essential. Apart from talking about overall numbers, we have to consider how civilianisation and reform are progressing and the training and the capacity in Templemore on a yearly basis.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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On programme B, working for safer communities, the Minister spoke about services for victims of crime, for which there is a budget of €2.313 billion. What does she have to say to victims and people like me who feel that not enough money is spent on services for the victims of crime? A constituent whose son was shot outside a pub came to my clinic recently. His son, who was an innocent person, was out of work for two years recovering. He got counselling and assistance from the Garda but he got nothing from a financial point of view. Many victims feel the money goes in the wrong direction and that there should be some sort of budget.

With regard to services for victims of crime, can we divert some of those services? If a person is out of work because he was innocently shot in a gangland shooting while standing outside a pub having a smoke, there should be some facilities to help his family, particularly if he is in hospital and out of work for two or three years and then tries to get back into the economy again. Many people are concerned about money being spent on administration and bureaucracy and feel that not enough of the €2.313 billion is going to the victims of crime.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is speaking about something that is extremely relevant, which is the need to have an increased focus on the victims of crime. I did not say this when I spoke earlier. Out of the Dormant Accounts Fund, we are allocating an extra €233,000 to victims of crime and the various helpline services. That is something we have been able to do with the dormant accounts.

I think the Deputy is right and I see it as a budget area that will increase, given the greater focus on victims of crime. The EU victims directive, which we must implement by December, makes it clear that there is an expectation that member states will increase the funding for victims of crime. For example, gardaí and anybody working directly with victims of crime in the police service will be under an obligation to give more information to victims. Member states will be under an obligation to implement a whole series of issues outlined in the directive. I have spoken to the Minister in the North, Mr. David Ford, MLA, who is working very hard on implementing that EU victims directive, including having a charter for victims of crime. We will see more initiatives in this area.

I welcome that the Garda Commissioner has also announced the placement of two officers in each divisional area with particular responsibility for ensuring that the service to victims is more proactive than it has been in the past. She is extremely conscious of the matter and places a very high priority on it.

The Deputy is right that there is a need for ongoing focus on the area in terms of increased funding and a better response to victims, and with regard to the Government's implementation of the EU victims directive.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I have a question on programme D, equality and integration. I welcome the Minister's comments on the number of non-Irish nationals who are getting involved in policing, which is a positive development. I have a question about one section of the new Irish community, the Sikh community. They are very interested in becoming involved in policing but they have their culture and the issue of headdress. They want to join the Garda Síochána, but apparently in Ireland a garda is required to wear the standard Garda cap. They have been accommodated in other police forces and have done an excellent job. They are allowed to wear their turbans and other dress relevant to their culture. Does the Minister have an open mind on that, or is she sticking to the old views?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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That is an interesting way of putting the question. Obviously this has come up before and there has been an approach that all members of An Garda Síochána wear the same uniform. As I understand, other forces have taken a different view and there was a long discussion in the UK on the matter. As Ireland becomes more multicultural, with members of different communities getting involved, there will be changes to accommodate that. I would like to see greater diversity among An Garda Síochána. As the Deputy has said, we are seeing that in the Garda Reserve already. It is not an issue I have examined since I became Minister for Justice and Equality. The expectation is that people will wear a set uniform.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I have been approached by members of the Sikh community. They have a very strong reputation internationally regarding policing. They would like to make a contribution. Perhaps the Minister might look at that in the future.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I understand that.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for her address. I apologise for being late; I was delayed in the Dáil. On the prison Vote, last September an RTE television programme highlighted a serious deficiency in services for female prisoners who are leaving secure units. There is really nowhere for them to go. In response to a parliamentary question in September, the Minister said the Department and local authorities had identified a location for a specific step-down facility to assist women.

There is a significant issue, particularly in light of the fact that women made up 15% of prisoners in 2012 and 18% in 2013, and in light of the fact that most female prisoners are poorly educated and often have drug problems. Also, imprisonment can have a harsh impact on mothers of families, who are often imprisoned for minor offences. These women may be imprisoned for offences that are not trivial, but the women are not a threat to society in terms of violence. What progress has been made on that facility? Does the Minister agree that in March last year this area was identified as a key area for improved facilities and investment by the prison authorities and the Probation Service?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy O'Dowd for raising this issue. We need a particular approach for women prisoners, and members have mentioned Dóchas and the need to find a new site. Deputy O'Dowd was speaking primarily about aftercare for women and an effective response for them. As he said, in March last year, a women's strategy, entitled An Effective Response to Women Who Offend, set out how the Irish Prison Service and the Probation Service would work together with other voluntary groups to develop the service. There is a new facility in Finglas which takes a number of women when they leave prison. This facility was developed as a result of the focus of the strategy. I can forward the details of that facility to the Deputy.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the budget allocations, is there increased funding for that? This is a priority and I welcome the fact that significant progress is being made. The television programme showed an unfortunate situation whereby people sometimes ended up going back to prison because there was nowhere else for them to go. That is a shame. I welcome the changes the Minister is making and would appreciate an update on the situation.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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One of the areas that has been greatly enhanced is inter-agency work between the Probation Service and the Irish Prison Service, and I pay tribute to both services on that. This is a key initiative. I have had a number of meetings with the Probation Service and attended a number of its conferences, and I have been struck by the new initiatives taken. One excellent initiative is focusing on repeat offenders and is working through both services to ensure effective identification of these offenders. The initiative is looking at the various problems involved, such as drug abuse or alcoholism, and ensuring people are getting the services they need in order to interrupt the reoffending.

In regard to women offenders, a new service, Tús Nua, is being developed. I thought it was in Finglas, but it is on the North Circular Road. It is managed by Depaul Ireland and funded by the Probation Service. This service, in co-operation with the community and voluntary sector, seeks to address the accommodation needs of women offenders. There is also another centre based in Finglas which was developed because demand for the service is so high.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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In terms of policy initiatives in this area, does the Department have a target for reducing the number of females in custody? The last figures we have are for 2013, which showed an increased number. What is the policy in this regard and what reduction is expected as a result of the Department's activity? How deep an analysis is being made?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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Deputy O'Dowd is right to identify this as an area needing attention. Prevention is also important. Many women are taken into custody for reasons to do with debt or drug addiction, which are key factors. In terms of prevention, it is key that the Courts Service and the Probation Service work together on this. If people are released from prison, we must try to prevent them from reoffending and being returned to prison. The number of women in Dóchas has risen. I visited Dóchas and met the governor, who pointed out that many of the women are imprisoned for only short periods. There are long-term prisoners, but many sentences are quite short. Therefore, I do not believe it would take a significant amount to have the kinds of service that could make a difference by supporting these women and helping to provide an alternative lifestyle for them. Often the issue has to do with drugs and with the provision of proper treatment. I do not have figures with me, but I can send on the details of the final figures in writing.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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On that issue, while it may be a truism, people say there are many people in prison who should not be there and many outside who should be. What is the position regarding committals to prison for non-payment of fines? Is that practice ended? There was legislation on this issue some time ago. Is the practice over and done with or can people still be sent to jail for not paying their television licence?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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We are finalising the position with the Courts Service. The numbers are down but there are still issues. I am in the process of issuing a letter seeking information on from the Courts Service regarding progress on ensuring that an effective system is in place for the payment of fines. The Deputy is probably aware that we have been working on this, as the committee discussed the Bill. Procedurally, there is still work to be done by the Courts Service to ensure full implementation of the Bill. The issue is complex in terms of procedures and ensuring the service can accept the fines as outlined in the legislation. This is a priority.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Let me give an example. I know of a lady in a case involving a non-defended litter fine. She did not attend court and was fined €980. She has no money to pay that fine. Even if she could afford to pay €5 now and €10 then and pay in instalments, that is not permitted. I understand the fine has to be paid in full. This is unacceptable in a modern world, notwithstanding that the case should have been defended. People should never be put in the position this lady has been put in. An offence has been committed and a fine should be paid, but there is no way the person should be sent to prison.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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To provide an update on the situation, this relates to the Fines (Payment and Recovery) Act 2014, which had the objective of supporting the administration of justice when fines are imposed to ensure that the fines imposed by the courts are collected and to reduce to the minimum possible the number of people committed to prison for the non-payment of fines. There is work to be done to implement this Act fully. A procurement process is under way to select a service provider to enable the legislation to operate effectively and efficiently and we are working on developing the IT systems needed.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Is there a timeframe for that?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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It will be this year. It is a question of months. We all want to see this in action, but procedures need to be put in place, for example, for the courts accounting system and the criminal case tracking system. Computer and accounting systems need to be put in place. We did not have these systems in place previously because we did not have this more sophisticated approach to dealing with fines, but they are now essential. I assure the Deputy that it is a priority to ensure all of this is in place, and this should happen over the next couple of months, once the Courts Service gets the work done.

Gabrielle McFadden (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I do not know whether it is the advantage or disadvantage of being the last speaker, but most of the issues I wished to raise have already been discussed.

On the issue of victims of crime, the Minister mentioned a helpline in her presentation. Will she elaborate on that? Some people who have attended my clinics feel strongly that people who perpetrate crimes get free legal aid, but victims get very little.

Deputy Finian McGrath touched on this. One person is out of work as a result of psychological damage from an assault and feels it is very unfair that the person who perpetrated the crime gets free legal aid but the victim gets nothing. He is living hand to mouth as a result of not being able to work. I would like the Minister to elaborate on the victim's helpline and any additional support for victims.

I welcome the investment in courthouses and, being parochial, I welcome it in regard to one in my constituency. What facilities have been put in place to house the courts while building is in progress? In Mullingar, I hope it will not be moved to another town while work is being done. I hope this is true in all cases because it will affect people turning up for court.

I welcome the €42 million capital building programme for the three headquarters. Are there any more plans forthcoming? Being parochial once again, Athlone Garda station is next door to a building that was acquired for the Garda station. It was to appear on the list but has not appeared yet. Can the Minister provide an update?

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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The increased funding provided to the Department of Justice and Equality under dormant accounts funding means we have an increase of €233,000 for victims of crime. We want to get people to use the helpline service. Part of the money will go to ensuring the helpline is available and accessible to victims. We are giving €50,000 to recruit and train volunteers, which will help. We are also giving €50,000 for the campaign to increase callers to the helpline. We are also providing funding to support services for victims of general crime. The sum of €233,000 will enable greater support to be given to the organisation. I recently increased the funding for Advic, although it was not a huge increase. Organisations like this, working with victims, deserve support and it will become even more necessary under the EU victims directive. It is desirable anyway, but one of the points specifically made under the directive is that organisations working with victims should be further supported by Governments. We will see more of that.

With regard to the building of the new courthouse in Mullingar, alternative accommodation will be sourced in the area, which is normally what is done. The final question concerned the Garda station in Athlone. There are three major projects and we have €42 million for the Garda headquarters. Athlone is on the building priority list and is being advanced with the OPW, subject to available funding. The funding for refurbishment is in the OPW Vote. I will meet the Minister of State with responsibility for the OPW and the Garda Commissioner to discuss the priority list. I would like to see it made publicly available in order that people know there is a plan in place to refurbish Garda stations. As funding becomes available, the work will be done. Garda stations throughout the country need refurbishment and we must make capital allocations for the work to be carried out. We need the transparency of a published priority list. From the capital point of view, it is dealt with by the OPW. I will be having a meeting shortly with the Department of Justice and Equality and the OPW to discuss how can move on the list.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I have two questions. The Irish Tourist Assistance Service was before us recently and was quite anxious to have a more permanent, accessible centre in Dublin for its work. It is doing great work and asked us to raise this important point.

Under Vote 20, Garda Síochána, can we get a breakdown by year on how firearms fees are going and what fees are coming in for different categories of firearms? We are doing some work on the matter and we have been trying to get information on the number of licensed firearms lost or stolen. We find it difficult to get the information in any shape or form. It would be useful if the Minister could make the information available to the committee.

Frances Fitzgerald (Dublin Mid West, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure if I have the information to hand but I can make it available.