Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the ambassador, H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu. I thank her for coming before the committee this afternoon to update it on the current political situation in and Ireland's bilateral links with Nigeria. Ireland has established strong links with Nigeria and in today's meeting we hope to further strengthen those links. Today's meeting will concentrate on bilateral relations between Ireland and Nigeria and there will be an update on the security situation in Nigeria as well as the activities of Boko Haram. We will hear an opening statement from the ambassador and will then take questions from members of the joint committee.

Before we begin, I remind members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to ensure that their mobile telephones are switched off completely for the duration of the meeting, as they cause interference with the recording equipment, even when in silent mode. Today's meeting is being streamed live on TV.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(i) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they will be entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

Distinguished Chair and members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, I wish to express my appreciation to the Chairman and members of this distinguished committee for the honour and privilege accorded me to update it on the recent developments in Nigeria and on the issue of Boko Haram insurgency since my last brief on 4 November 2014. This session bears clear testimony to the continued concern of the Government and people of Ireland toward the security challenges confronting Nigeria. Also, I wish to utilise this opportunity to thank the numerous individuals, groups and institutions in Ireland who have continued to send letters and messages to the embassy to express their deep concern for the innocent victims of the Boko Haram scourge and their condemnation of the insurgents, with a special mention of the Chibok girls and the recent Baga massacre.

Suffice it to say that the paradox of modern Nigeria is that while we have proudly emerged as the largest economy in Africa, and as a viable trade and investment destination, a raging insurgency and perhaps uncertainty in some circles over the possible outcome of the impending general elections, scheduled to take place 14 February 2014, have heightened interest in Nigeria.

To recap on Boko Haram, it is an Islamic sect in Nigeria that has openly declared support for ISIS. They prohibit and seek to disrupt and destroy educational institutions, strongly opposing all democratic ideals and principles. They have also in recent years continued to cause a raging insurgency with a wave of violence, especially in the northern parts of Nigeria. Their operational base is identified to be located in the Sambisa forest, which has borders with the Republic of Chad, Cameroon, Niger and Nigeria.

In addition, the group is known to sustain its activities by attacking markets, banks and business places. It kidnaps for ransom and hijacks petroleum products. Furthermore the tenacity and organisational capability of Boko Haram, as well as the tendency by its members to embed themselves within civilian populations, perhaps have helped to prolong the group's lifespan.

In his speech at Chatham House in London on 22 January this year the Nigerian national security adviser described the real and existential threat posed by Boko Haram as perhaps a millennial challenge. Indeed, Boko Haram has continued to constitute a raging insurgency in north-eastern parts of Nigeria. The group has since escalated its campaigns, seized territories and hoisted its flags, burned down whole villages, ransacked communities, and kidnapped and conscripted young children and used them as child soldiers and suicide bombers. It has kidnapped and raped women and young girls. It has also recently expanded its violent campaigns to the neighbouring republics, Chad and Cameroon.

It is pertinent to specially mention the recent attack on Baga, which was the headquarters of the multinational task force comprising Nigeria, Chad, Cameroon and Niger. At the time of the incident, Niger had withdrawn its forces whilst those of Chad, Cameroon and Nigeria were in their bases. Only the Nigerian base was attacked, culminating in the loss of the headquarters of the task force and the massacre of citizens of Baga. Nigeria has adopted the Amnesty International estimate of the total number of lives lost as 1,500.

Also worthy of mention is the botched ceasefire with Boko Haram. President Idriss Déby of the Republic of Chad had mediated on a potential ceasefire between Boko Haram and the Nigerian Government but unfortunately this mediation did not, in the end, yield the desired result.

In respect of counter-insurgency efforts, the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria has continued to pursue a multi-track approach in its responses and plans to fight Boko Haram, culminating in a robust counter-violent-extremism programme. First on the list is the military approach. The military has witnessed and benefited from greater training capacity building to counter-insurgency. Its use of technology, wide-scale training on the rules of engagement and respect for human rights have undergone development. A new civil-military relations doctrine is being adopted to redefine military relations with the public, specifying guidelines for civilian protection in all operations.

The National Counter-terrorism Centre has been created to co-ordinate all agencies involved in combatting terrorism in Nigeria and ensure greater synergy. It is also an intelligence fusion centre, serving as a processing point for all source intelligence.

Conscious of the regional threat posed by Boko Haram with the recent incursions into Cameroon, Niger and Chad, Nigeria has continued to work with these neighbouring countries, as well as the Republic of Benin, through the multinational task force. Each country’s military is part of the joint border patrols and there has been greater intelligence sharing. It is also noteworthy that the African Union has recently endorsed a deployment of 7,500 military personnel as part of the regional task force against Boko Haram. Meanwhile, the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has also acknowledged that Boko Haram is a clear danger to national, regional and international peace and security.

The counter-violent-extremism programme focuses on the root causes of terrorism and addresses them through four main streams. The first iscommunity engagement, which is at the core of the counter-radicalisation strand of government efforts, the objective being to foster visible community cohesion. The second is de-radicalisation, the objective of which is to prevent radicalisation through building community resilience, education, engagement with the religious environment and economic empowerment. It is hoped that this process will counter the drivers of radicalisation and empower the people to make better choices for growth and self-actualisation. The ultimate aim is to improve inter-faith relations, encourage dialogue as well as create greater economic opportunities for the citizenry. The third is strategic communications, which aims to counter extremist ideology and narratives. The fourth is the presidential initiative, which targets economic revitalisation, infrastructure development, job creation, protection of schools, and care for internally-displaced persons and victims of terrorism.

At this point, it is pertinent to outline the situation regarding the forthcoming general elections. Anxiety over the peaceful conduct of the 2015 general elections has continued to grow both at home in Nigeria and abroad, fuelled by the memories of the post-election violence that occurred after the 2011 elections. The insurgent group Boko Haram, which has repeatedly expressed disdain for democratic processes and principles, has also escalated its campaign over this period, further adding to these fears.

Challenges resulting from the conduct of elections have been linked to pre- and post-election violence, allegations of rigging, delayed delivery of ballot boxes, and desperation on the part of some politicians to win at all costs. Nigeria’s experience, most especially after the 2011 general elections, has shown that some challenges to election security could emerge spontaneously or, due to perceptions of irregularities during the voting process, might emerge in association with what some people might conclude to be unfavourable election results.

Meanwhile, recent complaints relating to the alleged inability of the Independent National Electoral Commission, INEC, to provide permanent voting cards to some 30 million eligible voters have prompted the national security adviser in Nigeria, Sambo Dasuki, to call for a slight delay in the conduct of the elections to give the electoral body sufficient time to distribute remaining voters’ cards. The law in Nigeria provides for elections to be conducted not more than 90 days before and not less than 30 to the end of an administration.

The date of 14 February 2015 is closer to the 90 days before the end of the tenure of the current administration on 29 May 2015. This shift does not in any way contravene Nigeria’s electoral laws and would only help to ensure a smooth and peaceful exercise. The federal government and its agencies are taking measures to ensure hitch-free elections. It is therefore expected that all stakeholders, including media, community leaders and political parties will play a key role in ensuring a peaceful atmosphere during the conduct of the elections. Recently all the presidential candidates and their parties agreed to curb the use of hate speech and work towards violence-free, fair and credible elections by signing what is now referred to as the Abuja Accord. Given the above, the 2015 elections are expected to be relatively peaceful and violence-free. The emergence of a seemingly viable opposition, as well as the closeness of the race, is a clear demonstration of our maturing democracy. Greater voter awareness also means that more people are engaged in the electoral process and determined to protect their right to vote. For its part, the Government is doing all it can to ensure that every Nigerian who wishes to vote is able to and his or her vote will count. Furthermore, efforts are being made for displaced citizens to also vote wherever they are camped.

Further to the previous brief to the committee on the state of the Boko Haram insurgency in the northern parts of Nigeria, the insurgents have escalated violence and nefarious activities with incursions into neighbouring countries, for example, Cameroon and Niger. The Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria has continued to review, enhance and expand the scope and content of military and socio-economic counter-insurgency responses and preparedness. It also remains open to dialogue and negotiated settlement, should Boko Haram express willingness. Conscious of the regional threat posed by Boko Haram, a multinational task force under the auspices of ECOWAS, AU and other international partners is in place.

I again express appreciation for the continued support and solidarity Nigeria enjoys from the Government and people of Ireland and assure members that the Federal Republic of Nigeria will continue to strive to contain the Boko Haram insurgency and ensure hitch-free general elections. It is our firm belief that Nigeria will emerge stronger, manage her threats better and improve on governance. We continue to reach out to members of the international community to stand with us as we strive to build a united and prosperous Nigeria.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I thank Dr. Ketebu. I apologise for three members who had to go to an alternative meeting. Two of them will be back but the third cannot. I apologise in particular for the Chairman, who has asked me to substitute for him. The Vice Chairman is indisposed at the moment.

The events that have unfolded over recent years in northern Nigeria are very sad and worrying. I am blessed in having been in the region, from Niger into Nigeria, across Maiduguri, into Cameroon and into Chad, the locations of the current upheaval. I know the area and I extend my condolences to the families of all the victims in that region. Before I take questions, perhaps I should pose some myself.

I congratulate Dr. Ketebu's country for having produced an excellent woman from the Maiduguri area. She might remember Amina Mohammed, who is the Secretary General's special adviser, a wonderful example of a wonderful Nigerian woman coming from the Maiduguri area.

Some of us would be concerned at reading reports that the Nigerian army is not up to the task of defending the region. Some negative reports have stated that some of the military withdrew prematurely and panicked. I remember some demonstrations by the mothers and families of the kids who were kidnapped being criticised by the president's wife. Could Dr. Ketebu assure me that she is confident the military is sufficiently disciplined to take on the major challenges it must confront? Her words are very reassuring because there is a history of post-election violence in Nigeria, so it is good to hear that the major candidates have made a pact that there will be no violence afterwards. In the interests of Nigeria and its unity and peaceful successes post-election, we hope that no matter who wins the election, the results will not be contested in a violent way.

David Norris (Independent)
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I welcome the distinguished ambassadress but will ask her some questions she may find challenging. She spoke about hate speech and outlawing it under the Abuja Accord but from the reading I have done, everything she has said about Boko Haram would be felt by gay people in Nigeria about the Government, given the publication, passing and signing into law by President Goodluck Jonathan of anti-same sex marriage legislation, the outlawing of sexual behaviour, the outlawing of transgender and transsexual people, and the severe criminal penalties involved in all this. I have a headline here that says, "You thought it was tough being gay in Uganda. 'It's hell in Nigeria.'" It remains curious to me, and I wonder if the ambassador has a response, why the Nigerian Government would support legislation that had its origin in 16th and 19th century British imperial statutes. That seems an odd situation.

It would be one thing if this were just a question of human rights - people can take different views on human rights and people have said that one person can say this is a violation of human rights and another can say it is supporting morality and the family and all the rest of it - but there are very practical results from this. I spoke on this in India, when I was at one of the Inter-Parliamentary Union meetings, because at that stage they were clamping down on gay people. That creates a time-bomb with regard to the situation of AIDS. The Nigerian Government's own figures show that HIV prevalence among gay men is 17.2%, whereas it is 4.1% among the general population. If the Government smothers that up, if it terrifies people, if it bullies, harasses, intimidates, jails, beats and stones people, of course they will go underground and the AIDS situation will get worse all the time. That is a simple, observable, objective fact. Why does the ambassador think that a country like Ireland should support AIDS programmes in Nigeria when the policies of its Government are going in the opposite direction and are likely to lead to a considerable increase in the numbers of people with AIDS?

There are therefore two aspects to this. One is the very human situation of a downtrodden group of people, a minority who have been terrified, beaten, attacked and imprisoned for something over which they have no control. In the past couple of days, our Parliament has been discussing the Gender Recognition Bill. This is something which would have been unthinkable 20 or 30 years ago. Yet people who are transvestite are subject to severe penal codes in Nigeria. There are therefore two aspects to this - one is the existence of the criminal law and the second is the question of the impact of this unwise legislation on the situation regarding AIDS.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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We are all very concerned about the conflict in northern Nigeria and the Boko Haram atrocities. We were all shocked to hear that a female suicide bomber had blown herself up in the northern Nigerian city of Gombe minutes after President Goodluck Jonathan left a campaign rally there. According to police and hospital reports, at least one person was killed and 18 were injured in the blast. With regard to the elections next week on 14 February, does the ambassador think that the polling stations will be safe from violence? Does she expect attacks to spread from northern to southern Nigeria? This is based on what has happened previously. In her introduction, the ambassador mentioned people displaced by violence. We know that hundreds of thousands of people have been displaced by the violence. Will the ambassador explain what provisions have been put in place to try to allow these people to vote? Will she expand on this issue? As an aside, do Nigerian diaspora have a vote? For instance, do Nigerian people living in Ireland have a vote in the elections?

The attack on Baga, which has been raised in the Houses on many occasions, is one of the worst tragedies in Nigeria's recent history. While many of us in Europe were occupied with what was happening in Paris and its fallout, Boko Haram invaded Baga on the same day and brutally murdered, according to the ambassador, approximately 1,500 people. The media spoke of a possible 2,000 deaths. The government at the time were playing it down, stating the number of deaths was possibly 200. It is a huge death toll and the city was flattened. President Goodluck Jonathan expressed his condolences for the victims of France. This is according to reports in the media. However, he stayed very silent on the Boko Haram attack on Baga. I am asking the reasonable question of why. Perhaps he did issue a statement but it was not picked up on in the media. People were saying that he was downplaying the attack.

Boko Haram has now taken control of this city and effectively controls Borno State. It has moved from being a regular insurgency group to a de factostate. There are refugees in Chad. The Chair mentioned that there was talk of the army dropping weapons and running when the fighting got bad. Why was this strategic border town with a large population so unprepared for the Boko Haram attack? The Boko Haram has spoken about supporting ISIS and international fundamentalism. How far do these connections go? We are told that it is being armed by Libya and so on. From where is it getting its funding? Is it getting support and training overseas? It has been reported Chadian reports have entered Nigeria. Is this part of an agreement between Chad and Nigeria?

The counter-insurgency is the last area I wish to address. The ambassador mentioned this herself. Analysts have stated that corruption inside the Nigerian army, unpaid wages and mutinies among troops have facilitated Boko Haram's rise. It has been reported by the media that since 2009 the security forces have waged an anti-insurgency campaign. Other speakers will probably also refer to this. It has been characterised, according to Human Rights Watch, by massacres, extra-judicial killings and arrests without trial. The question is whether this is happening in tandem. The ambassador is saying there is a strategy on trying to invest and so on. We know that, for instance, the onslaught has alienated many civilians and driven out communities and it is believed this is why it has support. It has reportedly moved from having 4,000 members in 2009 to maybe 6,000 or 8,000 or God knows how many at this stage. There is very little in the plan. The ambassador mentioned inequality and corruption and using the natural resources of a country to improve the socio-economic conditions for ordinary people. We know Nigeria has one of the fastest growing economies in the world, with an average GDP growth of 7% over a period of five years. However, at the same time, 60% of Nigerians are living in absolute poverty. Transparency International are stating that Nigeria ranks 136 out of 175 in its corruption perception index. Does the ambassador agree that inequality and corruption need to be a central part of any strategy to tackle not just Boko Haram but other insurgents and other expressions of dissatisfaction, dissent and revolt within the country?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Crowe for his contribution. I know he has to leave. There are so many questions there. I am sure they will still be answered by the time he returns.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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There are many questions there, but it is a broad list of questions.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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If the Deputy goes and comes back, we hope to address some or all of them.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the ambassador to the committee meeting and thank her for her presentation. I am not going to concentrate on the marriage issues which have been mentioned. Many people, including Christians, will not be able to get married in Nigeria simply because they are being killed. I will therefore concentrate on the breaches of fundamental human rights which are occurring there at present, in the main perpetrated by Boko Haram. We have all been appalled for many years by what is going on. Rather than being brought under control and diminishing, it has in fact increased. The ambassador's speech outlined the kidnapping and rape of young girls and probably young boys also and the conscription of child soldiers, which is a problem in other countries in Africa and which is a particular abuse of human rights with regard to children and would breach many conventions in that regard. We also saw the incident of the young suicide bomber, a young girl, who was obviously killed herself along with others. It is appalling. I would like to elicit some information from the ambassador on a couple of aspects of it. I understand that some of the 276 school girls in Chibok who were kidnapped escaped. How many are still in captivity?

Will the ambassador give us an idea as to the strength of Boko Haram? How many are involved? I know it is now conscripting people who would not normally be supportive of it and who are probably being forced into fighting. From where does it source its arms? Will the ambassador outline the number of victims killed since the current outbreak, which I think was in 2009? On the issue of arms and the sourcing of arms, will the ambassador outline if Nigeria has ratified the arms trade treaty or if it is a signatory to it?

Could the ambassador outline the background to the escalation of the current conflict? The leader of Boko Haram back in 2008 or 2009, when the group may have operated under a different name, was in police custody and he died in mysterious circumstances. My understanding is that no police were brought to justice or tried in regard to that. Could the ambassador give us some background information on exactly what happened there because some reports I read have attributed that particular killing or death to the escalation of the violence?

My colleague, Deputy Crowe, asked about the social issues that give rise to the disenchantment which may fuel support for the conflict. That is a question to which we would be keen for the ambassador to respond. Deputy Crowe also asked questions about the military. With regard to the attack on Baga, the multinational task force was based there and it seems extraordinary that Boko Haram could come in and wipe out the headquarters and also kill many civilians. It raises questions as to the competence of the army and President Goodluck Jonathan's commitment to tackling this situation.

I spoke to some Nigerians and, in general, they would say he is a very good man but some questions were raised with regard to his commitment to tackling this issue. The ambassador might comment on that. She might also expand on the training the army is getting. Given that it has a headquarters which is specifically tasked with containing and tackling the Boko Haram issue, the fact that troops could be taken from its headquarters raises training and competence issues.

The ambassador, in her statement, mentioned strategic communication to counter extremist ideology and narratives. One of the biggest issues facing everybody across the globe today is these extreme ideologies, some of which are social, some of which are religious and some of which are political. What is the strategy for achieving that? The ambassador only mentioned one line about that in her statement. She mentioned that the multinational task force under the offices of ECOWAS and other international partners is in place. How can we be confident that will be any more effective than what was already in place there?

What are the ambassador's observations on the support, help and assistance Nigeria is getting from the UN? We see condemnatory statements being made by it, as usual, but calling upon Boko Haram to desist is, I would have thought, to an extent, equivalent to whistling in the wind. One would have to compliment the UN on its refugee agencies and the camps they have in Chad which are taking people who are fleeing the country and, apparently the number has quadrupled in recent times. The ambassador might comment on how refugees are being dealt with and accommodated. I heard a report on a radio programme, I think it was on the BBC, over the weekend that gave direct accounts of people interviewed whose wives and children had been kidnapped and where many in the village had been killed. Those people are now living out in the forest trying to survive in very difficult circumstances. What supports are they getting? Their struggle is for food and they were seeking money or resources to get food. Obviously there is a huge humanitarian issue there and the ambassador might comment on that.

Fatou Bensouda, the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, ICC, has issued a statement in which she said, "As a State Party to the Rome Statute, Nigeria is committed to ensuring that crimes that deeply shock the conscience of humanity do not go unpunished, and I remind Nigeria of its obligation in this regard." What is happening in regard to those who are captured and being brought to justice in Nigeria for these crimes? The overriding question is what is being to ensure there is a solution, be it militarily or through negotiations, to finalise the suffering of the people in northern Nigeria?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I do not want the ambassador, Dr. Ketebu, to feel intimated by the litany of questions that have been posed, the number of which is quite substantial, but to facilitate the ambassador in the event of a duplication of questions, would she be happy for me to call the final two speakers and reply to all the questions together-----

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

Yes.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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-----unless she wants to respond at this point?

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

No. I will address them all together.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I thank the ambassador for her understanding. The next speaker is Deputy Halligan.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
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Although I am not a member of this committee, I am a member of the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs and a member of the Council of Europe and the human rights committee. I thank the Chairman for allowing me to contribute to the meeting.

I welcome the ambassador and offer my condolences to the people of the Nigeria who are at the front line dealing with Boko Haram.

I support Senator Norris 100% in everything he said regarding the rights of gay people, lesbians and transgender people in Nigeria. What is happening is an affront to human rights and to democracy, which has been roundly criticised by very many people in the Council of Europe and human rights organisations throughout the world. I am a member of Amnesty International and it has carried out many studies in Nigeria. Amnesty International would say that even up to the present day it is dangerous to assert oneself as being gay, lesbian or transgender and that one runs the risk of severe punishment or even death. I find that unacceptable in any country.

I wanted to concentrate briefly on Boko Haram and we all know its set-up. We are not too sure if its members are even fundamental Islamists. We know they oppose secular authority and anything to do with the West. We believe that they now control about 15 local government areas in north eastern Nigeria. The information from Amnesty International, which has spoken to senior military sources in the Nigerian army, is that in regard to the attacks on both Baga and Monguno, commanders at the bases before September, October, November and December regularly informed military headquarters that attacks were imminent and it is a matter of fact that in villages near to Baga and Monguno they had come across groups of Boko Haram who were organising and preparing to attack. Their information was that they were going to attack Baga and Monguno. This is coming from military sources within the Nigerian army who say that in spite of repeated requests for help from senior military commanders in the capital, none was forthcoming. Amnesty International and human rights organisations have confirmed that this has happened. I am not saying this is the case but there is an opinion that there may be elements within the Nigerian army who are not doing their job in protecting the people of Nigeria and who might be complicit in dealing with Boko Haram. There are indicators from many organisations around the world that this might be the case. It is extraordinary, as some members said, that having had information for three months of imminent attacks on two major parts of Nigeria, nothing was done and no help was forthcoming.

As one of the members said, the multinational joint task force indicated that attacks were imminent.

It is now seven years since the UN special envoy on torture made a statement to the UN to the effect that torture had become an intrinsic part of police activity in Nigeria. In September 2014 Amnesty International said the severity of torture inflicted on Nigerian women, men and children by the authorities was shocking to even the most hardened human rights observer. It is believed that there are now 5,000 people who have been in detention in Nigeria since 2009 without trial. Amnesty International, which is a highly regarded organisation around the world and has been in Nigeria, confirmed the figures. I have spoken to people from Nigeria who told me that is the case. I accept that the authorities must deal with Boko Haram and that it might not be possible to speak to its members or negotiate with them. There might have to be a military solution – as there will have to be with ISIS - but we hope that will not be the case. I am assured by Amnesty International that there are innocent people among the 5,000 prisoners and that it only gives succour to terrorists all over the world if they feel that people are being tortured in their name. The evidence all over the world has always been that such behaviour ignites people into thinking the government is against them so they will act against the government. It is possible that the infliction of torture on so many, whether members of Boko Haram or not, will not bode well for those dealing with the terrorist group.

I wish to return to what Senator Norris said. Two months ago I met people who had left Nigeria who were gay and lesbian and who had suffered terrible torture. I saw the injuries inflicted on them by the police force or individuals authorised or given the go-ahead by the Nigerian authorities. Boko Haram is an organisation that carries out terrible atrocities. It is incumbent on a government dealing with terrorists not to be involved in terrorism itself. To my mind, and according to Amnesty International, that is, unfortunately, the case in Nigeria. We must open our hearts and minds so that we do not allow that to happen. Members of the Irish Parliament have all spoken at times about what is happening in Nigeria and have great sympathy for the Nigerian Government in dealing with Boko Haram, but we must face up to the fact that in some senses the way the government is dealing with its own people is unacceptable and reprehensible.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I thank Deputy Halligan. Someone has their phone switched on and it is interfering with the broadcast. We ask people to double-check that their phones are switched off.

Michael Mullins (Fine Gael)
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I join with colleagues in welcoming the ambassador. I extend sympathy through the ambassador to the people of Nigeria who have lost their lives in such violent circumstances. We all want to contribute to a solution.

I apologise for missing the early part of the presentation. I see that significant emphasis was placed on a programme to counter violent extremism and use community engagement to bring about de-radicalisation. I would have expected to see the addressing of human rights issues, as outlined by Senator Norris and Deputy Halligan in particular. Surely that is an issue that must be addressed if community engagement and respect are to be built. The treatment of gay, lesbian and transgender people in 2015, as we understand it to be happening in Nigeria, is not acceptable. If the government wishes to win international support for its efforts to defeat terrorism, this is an issue that must be at the top of the agenda and addressed as a matter of urgency.

I note that the EU High Representative, Federica Mogherini, said in a statement on 19 January that only intensive regional co-operation between Nigeria’s neighbours can generate the local leadership necessary to bring about a durable solution. She welcomed the fact that a meeting was taking place in Niamey in Niger on 20 January to discuss the threat from Boko Haram. Has anything positive emerged from the meeting or is the ambassador aware of any significant developments that might emerge from it in terms of future developments between Nigeria and its neighbours?

How confident is the ambassador that the elections will be fair and free, and that there will not be significant violent incidents during the course of the 2015 elections? Does the ambassador consider the efforts that are being made to contain the conflict in the north east and to ensure that elections are held in all states, particularly by strengthening security services, will be successful? How confident is the ambassador that the heads of the police force and other security agencies will act lawfully in the run-up to the elections and that all candidates and parties will be treated fairly?

Dan Neville (Limerick, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry for being late, but I had to attend another meeting.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I will be brief. I apologise, as I had to leave to attend another meeting, but I did hear part of the ambassador’s presentation. I welcome her and thank her for coming.

I am probably echoing the concerns raised by other speakers about what has been going on in Nigeria for some time. Reference has been made to the massacres, the transgender issue, which was mentioned by Senator Mullins, and the abduction and disappearance of the 200 schoolgirls. It is incomprehensible to us what is happening in Nigeria and how a government can appear to be so uninterested in the issue of the disappearance, for example, because I am particularly interested in it. It has been suggested that the government is complicit with Boko Haram. I do not know whether that is true, but to the outside world it seems to be uninterested in the fate of the girls. We read in the newspaper that the girls are probably married off by now, as if that did not matter. The implication is that it is time to forget about it, the damage has been done and there is no need to bother about where the girls are. I use the case as an example of our incomprehension of what is going on in Nigeria.

The prime responsibility of a government is to protect its own people, and the government is not doing that in Nigeria. It is not protecting its borders, which is also a prime function of the government. The Nigerian Government is allowing cross-border activity, which is having a huge impact on the people of Nigeria. I am sure the witnesses know all this. I am not telling them something that is news to them. What is going on is not happening in a vacuum. It is happening in conditions which contribute towards the rise of insurgency. Insurgency does not happen for no reason. There is a culture of corruption. There is no other word for it. Most people accept that that is the case in Nigeria.

What is the present Government or any new Government promising that will change the conditions in Nigeria to the benefit of the ordinary Nigerian people? What is being promised that will offer them protection for the future or that will improve governance to ensure the conditions are not conducive to the rise of organisations such as Boko Haram?

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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A fair litany of questions have been asked, but before the ambassador answers them, having read her extremely extensive curriculum vitae, I would like first to congratulate her as ambassador. I note that she will probably have found some of the questions to be highly challenging, given her extensive political and medical experience on behalf of women in Nigeria. She has written a manual for women politicians entitled "Playing to Win", among other things. The ambassador is highly experienced and her curriculum vitae shows her to be a strong humanitarian and a strong advocate for women's rights. As she has heard the criticisms and the questions posed, members will be fascinated to hear her response.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

I thank the Acting Chairman. I will start with the role of the United Nations. The recently endorsed deployment of a 7,500-strong force of military personnel by the African Union received an endorsement from the United Nations. Clearance was sought from the Security Council of the United Nations before the African Union endorsed the deployment of these troops. This is part of the positive action on the part of the United Nations. I will take together the issues of the apparent complicity on the part of the Nigerian Government, corruption and those other issues that have portrayed this matter as coloured. In the earlier part of my presentation, I mentioned that Boko Haram's operational base is the Sambisa forest, which is near the border with three other countries, Cameroon, Chad and Niger. The Government of Nigeria raised this issue continuously from the outset because it truly was a regional problem. Boko Haram would enter Nigeria from Cameroon, Chad or Niger, attack places, loot communities, attack markets, break into the strong rooms of banks, loot moneys and then return to Chad, Niger or Cameroon. Before this final decision by the African Union, the matter was taken up at the level of the Economic Community Of West African States, ECOWAS. Heretofore, even in respect of the Multinational Joint Task Force, each country was to place its troops or contributions to the contingent on its own territories. Forces from Nigeria could not enter Chad, forces from Chad could not enter Nigeria and Niger was obliged to place its people at its borders. This was the situation at the time Boko Haram attacked Baga. In my presentation, I mentioned how Niger had withdrawn its troops from its borders, because until the recent incursions into Niger and Cameroon, everybody else appeared to be looking at this as though it simply was a Nigerian matter. In the past week, Chadian troops have succeeded in crossing the borders into Nigeria to enable the Multinational Joint Task Force to actually confront Boko Haram from the Chadian, Nigerien, Cameroonian and Nigerian axes. If members are following up the issue in the media, they will have noticed that over the past two weeks more than half the territories under the control of Boko Haram have been recovered, because it has dawned on these countries that it is a regional problem and that until all the countries bordering the Sambisa forest pull together their resources to confront Boko Haram, we will not win the war against it. However, it is because they have done this that we are recording the positive incursions on Boko Haram from Chad, Cameroon and Niger.

On the issue of inequality of development or inequality in the deployment of resources, Nigeria operates with 36 states and a federal capital territory. Each state is governed by an indigene of that state and each state raises its own budget and applies its own resources. In other words, it is not the federal Government that develops all the states. Inasmuch as resources or major resources are disposed from the federal Government to the states, these states in addition raise their own internally generated revenue, IGR, to make up the revenue with which the various states develop themselves. These states do not suffer any form of inequity in the allocation of revenue from the federal process. Various indices are put in place to allocate resources to the various states, such as population, resources, taxes, VAT and so on. All those parameters are put in place, the states meet and each state collects a legitimate due. As a result, I do not subscribe to the suggestion that Boko Haram has arisen because of inequity in the distribution of resources or development on the part of the federal Government. However, this does not preclude the federal Government from intervening in the development of the states. These states are the states in which the federal Government has a special education strategy introduced by the current President, Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, which is called the Almajiri education scheme. The purpose of Almajiri education is to provide Western education for Islamic children in the northern parts of Nigeria. Where the educational system is strictly Islamic, the children are withdrawn from the parents and are attached to various Islamic scholars. The federal Government realised that this was raising a critical mass of youths who were devoid of Western education in the northern part of Nigeria and in consequence, it introduced this special scheme. If members reads about Nigeria, they can google the Almajiri education scheme and will find that the scheme was designed and implemented by the Government of the current President.

On the issue of gay marriages, I am not aware that Nigeria has a law in place that has prescribed the death sentence for gay marriages. I am aware that the law in Nigeria has prescribed jail terms for gay couples. The system in Nigeria is that in passing any law, the National Assembly will hold public hearings with interest groups and people are free to make known their views. Usually, when they do so, the National Assembly takes this into consideration before passing the law. Therefore, it is not a matter of the President of Nigeria having passed the law. While he has given his assent to the law, that is the law which is in place in Nigeria, passed by the National Assembly.

People who had gay rights had the opportunity and privilege to make their views known. They were not precluded from the process of public hearings or from making their contributions. As of today, the law in Nigeria prohibits gay marriages. That is what the law is.

David Norris (Independent)
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It also prevents people joining organisations or supporting gay rights.

Eric Byrne (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I ask Senator Norris to work through the Chair. We would like to see the ambassador answer the huge volume of questions that have been posed without adding additional ones to the already long list.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

On the issue of the escalation of Boko Haram activities being linked to the fact that its leader was killed in police custody, this alludes to the view that Boko Haram is strictly a Nigerian affair. The incursions into Niger, Chad and Cameroon were not precipitated by the death of any of its leaders. Boko Haram cannot be at war with four countries at a time on the basis of an allegation that its leader was killed in Nigeria. What has happened is that these are the kind of people who are anti-democracy and all its ramifications. They are opposed to western education. They were operating in a forest where initially they were basing all their attacks in Nigeria and the neighbouring countries thought it was strictly a Nigerian affair. Now that it is spreading because Boko Haram has made incursions and secret entrances into other countries, it has dawned on everyone else that it must be a regional and collective war. Until that is done, we may not succeed in eliminating Boko Haram. I am happy that the multi-national regional task forces are becoming more active and serious in the prosecution of the war against Boko Haram. That is why we are attaining the successes of recent weeks.

On the funding of Boko Haram, I set out in the early part of my presentation that they attack banks, markets, business places, hijack petroleum products, and kidnap important persons and workers for ransom. That is how they raise their funds. In the last attack at the Multinational Joint Task Force base, by the time they took the headquarters, they made away with a huge cache of weapons. That does not mean it is the only source. They have access to limitless funds nobody can account for. The ones we can identify are the ones I have mentioned. States have to operate within the confines of international standards and law for which Boko Haram has no regard. That is why it can afford to use child soldiers and young girls as suicide bombers. Before the use of these young girls as suicide bombers, Muslims in Nigeria have the right to veil their women. Once they have veiled up, it would be unreligious or sacreligious according to their religion to have to undress them. Even today, Nigeria has yet to pass a law prohibiting the use of hijabs out of respect for the Islamic religion, but those are the kinds of openings they try to cash in on to use young girls and women in their veils strapped with explosive devices as suicide bombers. States cannot do that kind of thing because they have recourse to international standards.

On the issue of military training, I said in my presentation that Nigeria receives capacity-building support from our international partners. Various countries are now involved in training the military in Nigeria. I am sure military officials will be able to mention the nations involved. At the outset, some of the meetings were held in New York and London. There have been meetings with the Israeli Government and other international partners supporting Nigeria with training and military support.

On the issue of the feeling that Boko Haram members and extremists feel victimised and are escalating their activities to fight government, I am reluctant to believe that is why the group visits schools where innocent children are at midnight or the wee hours of the morning to slaughter them like animals. Those who go to a market place and explode bombs to kill Christians and Muslims, not caring who is there, are not fighting the Government. They attack and break into bank strong rooms and loot the moneys that are there and that is not out of anger against the Government. Boko Haram must be taken as it is and acknowledged for what it is.

Boko Haram comprises a group of people who have no respect for human life or dignity. They do not respect any religion because they are slaughtering Muslims, Christians and atheists. They have no respect for human rights because they slaughter children, men and women and they rape women and young girls. There is nothing they will not do. There is no excuse for the activities of Boko Haram. Today it is Nigeria, tomorrow it will be Niger. Next will be Chad and by the time they finish with west Africa, they may spread further if they are not checked. Boko Haram is the other arm of ISIS and the earlier the world sees it as it is, the better for all of us. A life in Nigeria is like a life in France or Ireland. A group that appears to exterminate communities of people for no reason should be the enemy of every human being.

The issue was raised of assurances that elections will be free and fair. The President of Nigeria has continued to say so. The independent national electoral commission has given assurances and the leaders of the parties, presidential and vice presidential candidates and others have signed the Abuja accord. The electoral commission has said it is making arrangements to make provision for those who are displaced to vote. In some of the submissions, we have been informed that temporary ballot places and booths are being provided for them. It is being ensured that displaced persons are now being grouped according to their electoral constituencies wherever they are found.

On the care of displaced persons, Nigeria now works in collaboration with the other countries where Nigerian refugees are. They are mainly in Niger and Chad. Nigeria has been taking materials to governments in charge of the communities where refugees are.

The materials are not handed directly to the displaced persons because the various countries they have gone to have arranged for their people to take care of them where they are. They have well-defined camps with designated officers in charge. Nigerian officials take the materials to the officers and the governments where these Nigerians have been displaced to. It is a co-ordinated effort between the Government of Nigeria and those who are outside. For those within Nigerian borders it is the new local governments in the areas in which they have found themselves that co-ordinate the care for the displaced persons.

On good governance, even in the lateral campaigns, the two leading presidential candidates, the current President and the former military Head of State, are giving assurances of good governance and have signed the Abuja Accord to contain their supporters and followers, accept the outcome of the election results and ensure there will be no pre- or post-electoral violence. In as much as a few incidents have taken place, they have been known to come out to call their supporters to order.

The International Criminal Court has called on the Nigerian Government to ensure that none of the perpetrators of these criminal acts will go scot free. This call comes from the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court and Nigeria has given an assurance that the perpetrators will be brought to book. I trust that will happen. To judge from what is happening internationally these are not crimes that anybody could run away from. The important point is that unless and until the key actors are arrested the whole group cannot be prosecuted. As they are arrested or the presentations are made and they are found to be the ones liable, the law enforcement agencies and the judiciary will take their course from that point.

In respect of diaspora voting, as of now members of the Nigerian diaspora do not have the opportunity to vote unless they return to Nigeria. A hearing of the Bill on this is taking place at the National Assembly. I have no doubt that the new session of the National Assembly, once it is convocated, will be able to conclude this Bill.

On the issue of HIV and based on the fact that gay couples have been forced to operate underground, the important point is that Nigeria has an anti-HIV health policy in place. In some states in Nigeria the treatment is free. The gay community is not such a large population that it would overwhelm the indices, the data or percentage of the population that is HIV+ but as long as that is the law in Nigeria one would expect that. Some gay couples have found their way out of Nigeria, some are still there. Those issues will be left until the law changes and because society is dynamic, laws are made and change. One does not know whether the new National Assembly will address the issue but I would expect that once there are calls in public arenas to address such situations interested parties will make their interests known.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the ambassador for her response. She makes a good defence of much that is happening in Nigeria and I do not suggest that any of this lies at her door. I realise she is a defender of women and of human rights but to say that this is the law in Nigeria is not an excuse for what is happening to gay people in Nigeria and does not absolve the President and Government of any responsibility. It is the Government’s responsibility to give leadership and to defend the human rights of all citizens. To say it is the law is not a defence of what is happening. I realise the ambassador is not responsible for this but it is important that Nigeria as a member of the international community should understand this kind of persecution is not acceptable. I am not surprised the gay community in Nigeria is not large, given the laws operating against it.

Regarding the activities by Boko Haram, I accept what the ambassador says about this being a regional problem that does not all lie at Nigeria’s door. My main concern is the girls who were abducted and brought to somewhere outside or inside the country. The ambassador refers to them as displaced persons. The definition of displaced persons is people who move themselves because of war or some catastrophe or natural disaster. These girls are not displaced persons in the accepted sense of the word. I assume that is who the ambassador was talking about.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

No. I did not refer to the Chibokan girls as displaced persons. The displaced persons are the almost 2 million Nigerians who have now been displaced because of Boko Haram activities. When the Chibokan girls were kidnapped there was no regional collaboration as there is now. At that time Boko Haram could enter Nigeria and escape. I referred to that in my earlier narrative. They would escape to Cameroon, Chad or Niger. That was what they did at that time and they distributed the girls. Even the Nigerian national security adviser referred to that in his presentation in London. At that time there was no regional collaboration or co-operation as there is now, when Chad could come into Nigeria and Nigeria could go to Chad, Niger or Cameroon.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I apologise. I misunderstood the ambassador in that case.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

Yes.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I do understand that the girls were distributed, as the ambassador says. What happens now that there is co-operation? If one little girl was taken in Ireland we would move heaven and earth to return her to her family. How many of the 200 girls taken from their families have been returned? Has the Government done anything to return any of those girls?

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

In fact it was the search for those girls that led to the botched peace talks with Boko Haram. It was in an attempt to recover the girls that the President of Chad approached the President of Nigeria.

Boko Haram had agreed to a ceasefire and was to meet for negotiations on the release of the girls. It was not circulated that there was to be a ceasefire and that the girls were to be returned. In the end, it was not to be. Nigeria has still not given up. It is all part of what is going on with the regional collaboration and the military actions against Boko Haram.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the ambassador for her comprehensive response. I realise the situation is difficult but the central question I was putting to her concerned the fact that there is criticism that the current Nigerian Administration under the President is not sufficiently determined to resolve the issue of Boko Haram. There does not seem to be any offensive operation. I take the ambassador's point on the Sambisa Forest. How many hectares are involved? I am sure it is huge. There are supposed to be defensive mechanisms to counter Boko Haram attacks but they are obviously ineffective, and there is no subsequent follow-up. This problem will continue unless there is either a negotiated settlement or a military victim over Boko Haram.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

As I said earlier, Nigeria is still open to a negotiated settlement should Boko Haram express willingness in this regard. I also said that in the past two weeks there has been full-blown regional co-operation where Nigeria chases Boko Haram into Niger or Chad, and vice versa. In the past two weeks, more than 50% of the territories under Boko Haram have been recovered from it. That is a clear demonstration of the amount of military success that can be attained where there is regional collaboration. Before now, all the troops were made to remain in their various countries without crossing borders. Thus, Boko Haram would attack Nigeria and take flight to Niger, where Nigerian troops could not pursue them. Now that the countries are working in tandem as a true multinational task force against Boko Haram, we have been able to record the successes of the past two weeks.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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On the matter of bilateral relations between Ireland and Nigeria, two issues arise in regard to trade. A former Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Joe Costello, led a delegation to Lagos approximately two years ago with our development agencies and financial institutions. Are more Irish industries being set up in Nigeria as a consequence? Are investors going to Nigeria as a result of the visit and various other activities? Nigeria has the largest economy in Africa and it depends significantly on oil. How has the fall in oil prices affected the Nigerian economy? Is it a big issue in the election campaign?

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

Just this December, I went to Nigeria following on from the Invest Nigeria event we had at the wings of the Africa Ireland Economic Forum. I went with a team of nine Irish investors and we visited Osun and Ogun states. We were to go to Bayelsa and two other states but the declaration of the President and other national activities made it virtually impossible for us to stay for longer than the week that we spent there.

There is a lot more business interaction and activity between Ireland and Nigeria. In fact, we are planning in this regard. However, but for the elections, we would have gone to Nigeria with another team.

Another team is in line for March. I am happy and impressed with the development. I am working in tandem and co-operating and collaborating well with the Irish ambassador in Nigeria, Mr. Sean Hoy. We are making progress together and are happy.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I thank the ambassador for being so forthright and honest in her answers. I wish her country well in the forthcoming elections and hope they are free of violence. I hope a government, parliament and President for and by the people are elected and that the present security threat can be dealt with, not by Nigeria alone but also by all its neighbours. We wish the ambassador well in that regard and thank her for appearing before the committee this afternoon.

H.E. Dr. Bolere Elizabeth Ketebu:

I thank the Chairman.