Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I remind members, visitors and those in the public gallery to please ensure their mobile phones are switched off for the duration of the meeting as they interfere with the broadcasting equipment even when on silent mode. This meeting is with Enterprise Ireland to discuss women entrepreneurship, women in the tech industries, skills needs and balanced regional development. I welcome from Enterprise Ireland Ms Julie Sinnamon, chief executive officer; Ms Jean O'Sullivan, female entrepreneurship manager; Mr. Tom Hayes, microenterprise and small business divisional manager; and Mr. Jerry Maloney, mid-west regional director.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. If witnesses are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Ms Sinnamon to make her presentation.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

I thank the committee for inviting me to speak on female entrepreneurship, the skills needs of our clients and our role in regional development. I am joined by my colleagues, whom the Chairman introduced, who work in the relevant areas in Enterprise Ireland.

Enterprise Ireland's objective is to start and grow world-class Irish enterprises, targeting global markets. For companies to maximise job creation, they need to grow their sales, and for a small economy like ours growth in export sales is crucial. Achieving this objective will require a major drive for scale across all of our clients. Recognising the diversity of the Enterprise Ireland client base, our supports are tailored to reflect each company's stage of development. This ensures all of our clients, from entrepreneurs and start-ups, to exporting SMEs and large companies, can access the appropriate supports to help them to scale and grow. I propose to take members briefly through our clients' impressive employment performance in 2014 before presenting our key achievements and plans in the specific areas identified for today's discussion, after which my colleagues and I will respond to any questions members may have.

Enterprise Ireland client companies continue to see year on year jobs growth, and in 2014 they created 8,476 new jobs which was the highest net gain in the history of the agency. This impressive employment growth demonstrates the direct impact that increasing exports has on jobs in Ireland.

Enterprise Ireland-supported companies directly provide employment for 180,072 people, comprising 156,202 full-time and 23,870 part-time workers. In terms of their overall contribution to the economy, Enterprise Ireland's clients account for more than €20 billion in expenditure in the economy and support more than 300,000 jobs directly and indirectly, equating to 16% of the total workforce.

The outlook for new job creation in 2015 is positive and Enterprise Ireland's focus will remain on ensuring that our clients have access to all of the necessary supports required to build on this momentum. This focus, coupled with our priority to support entrepreneurship across the regions and develop strong, export-focused, ambitious Irish companies that can win new business, will mean more jobs for Ireland during the next 12 months.

One of Enterprise Ireland's core objectives is to deepen the pool of start-ups with the potential to scale internationally. To achieve this, we need to ensure that we are working with the most ambitious and capable founders and placing them on faster growth trajectories. Traditionally, female founders have been an under-represented source of start-ups and the potential of this cohort has not been fully realised. Our aim is to harness this potential, support the creation of successful female-led international businesses and achieve great outcomes for Ireland.

Since 2012, Enterprise Ireland has developed an integrated strategy to encourage more women to start innovative businesses with high growth potential. Our work in this area is encouraged by the increased policy focus at Government level on ensuring that the under-representation of women in the start-up ecosystem and across the business community is addressed. We provide tailored supports aimed at increasing the level of female entrepreneurship. These include: highlighting strong female role models leading successful businesses; female-specific financial supports such as a competitive start fund; networking supports that recently saw the development of a web-based networking platform; and the development of female-specific development programmes, for example, Going for Growth. We have already seen a 250% increase in the number of female-led start-ups from 12 in 2011 to 43 in 2014. This includes a significant increase in the proportion of female-led high-potential start-ups, HPSUs, accounting for 18% of the total number of HPSUs compared with 7% in 2011. While this is significant progress, we need to build on it and continue to focus on this important issue.

The mix of dynamic, growing Irish companies and leading multinational companies, MNCs, in Ireland is creating an exciting pool of highly-skilled people working in innovative areas. However, a key challenge facing many of the companies that have ambitions to scale is the availability of skills. Enterprise Ireland has a clear understanding of our clients' skills needs and it is our role to work with the third level sector, Departments and other agencies to develop an appropriate response that will work to fill any gap.

In the short term, programmes attracting critical skills to Ireland are central to ensuring the continued growth of Irish companies in tech and related sectors. IT's Happening Here, an industry initiative that is supported by Enterprise Ireland, is an example of a programme that has been successful in attracting overseas talent to Ireland with clients successfully recruiting through the online portal and events. Enterprise Ireland is also a key contributor to the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation-led committee that is charged with promoting Ireland internationally as a destination for high-level ICT skills. A national initiative is being developed and will be implemented as part of the 2015 Action Plan for Jobs.

Our client skills unit works with our sectoral and start-up teams to understand our clients' needs, interacts with national policy makers and skill providers to ensure that their needs are fully reflected and contributes to the development of longer term solutions that will address gaps. Areas that clients have highlighted include ICT skills, engineering and selling skills. It is important to acknowledge the considerable efforts that have been made to increase the supply of skills such as Springboard, ICT conversion courses, JobBridge and Momentum. Client feedback on these programmes and initiatives has been positive, with clients telling us that they are effective in addressing the skills gaps.

In addition to the work we do on the wider skills agenda, Enterprise Ireland has developed a number of flagship programmes focused on supporting leadership and management capabilities in Irish companies. In 2014, 246 managers participated in these programmes, with well over 1,000 participating in the past four years. Key programmes include Leadership 4 Growth, the international selling programme and Excel at Export Selling, which are designed to equip Irish companies with the necessary tools to reach their export sales potential in global markets, as well as Access Silicon Valley, a further programme.

In 2014, two new programmes were launched. First, Innovation 4 Growth was developed to meet the needs of ambitious and entrepreneurial Irish companies seeking to use innovation as a key way to unlock opportunities in the marketplace. Second, a pilot programme called Platform 4 Growth was launched which uses a blended delivery model combining online and face-to-face delivery. It means participants enjoy the traditional benefits of peer networking while also having greater flexibility to custom design a learning package by mixing and matching modules that are best suited to their specific needs.

With regard to regional development, the launch of 31 local enterprise offices in April 2014 represented a major commitment by Government to support entrepreneurship, micro enterprise and small business throughout the country. Enterprise Ireland, through its centre of excellence, provides support, training and guidance to the 31 LEOs to ensure a professional and consistent level of support is provided to all start-ups and small business. Significant progress was made during 2014. The priorities for continuing the integration process in 2015 include gathering customer and client feedback and finalising the development of local enterprise plans and metrics.

With two thirds of Enterprise Ireland's client companies located outside of Dublin, regional development is a key element of its 2014-16 strategy. Our role in this space is to drive and nurture regional enterprise all the way from an originating idea, at local level, to the high potential start-up companies taking on global markets. Our regional development supports are focused on four pillars of activity: prospecting for a pipeline of early stage start-ups and high potential start-ups; working with established clients and potential exporters in the regions to maximise job creation potential and to support internationalisation; working with the higher education sector to further strengthen the innovative capability of companies based in Ireland and support the commercialisation of research; and working with LEOs, community enterprise centres, IDA Ireland and others to enhance the ecosystem supporting enterprise in the regions.

Enterprise Ireland's regional enterprise strategies are currently in development. We are working closely with the Department as it develops a whole of government approach to regional enterprise development. The four pillar approach was piloted in the midlands in quarter 4 of last year and included a regional enterprise forum with 120 people from the public and private sector in December. The midlands strategy is nearing completion and the process will be refined and rolled out in the remaining regions this year.

On behalf of Enterprise Ireland, I thank the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, and the many Departments and agencies across the system. They are critically important in enabling us to drive the development of Irish companies. We are very proud of the record performance of our companies across the country in 2014. The level of increased employment achieved is remarkable and endorses the strategy we have embarked on to 2016.

Significant progress has been made in each of the areas being discussed today. However, it is important that we build on this success over the 2015-16 period. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate our female entrepreneurship team, which is led by Ms Jean O'Sullivan, on the substantial increase that we have seen in female led start-ups since 2014. We will continue to work to fully realise the potential of this important source of start-ups.

Client feedback endorses the approach that has been taken by Enterprise Ireland and others to address the skills gaps of our clients. This is a longer term issue and we will continue to engage with the HEA and others to develop solutions that meet the needs of our clients.

Supporting balanced regional development will continue to be at the centre of Enterprise Ireland's activity. The Enterprise Ireland's centre of excellence has worked closely with the LEO network, since its establishment, providing professional and back-up support which will continue to be a major focus of our work in 2015-16.

Enterprise Ireland is keenly focused on its ongoing mission to start and grow world class Irish enterprises, targeting global markets and to move forward into 2015 with the objective of playing a central role in the implementation of the 2015 action plan which was published last week.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Sinnamon and call Senator White.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Sinnamon for her presentation. I welcome all the witnesses and appreciate their attendance.

I shall be honest with Ms Sinnamon by saying I would have liked her to be more specific. I want to know what we need to do to encourage more women into the sector and to achieve a more equal balance between the number of men and women.

I wish to highlight another serious issue. Taxation prevents people from starting up a business but it was not mentioned in the presentation.

I have another problem. Last week at our meeting, reference was made to the shortage of people with selling skills. Just because one does programming does not mean one can sell. To be honest, I believe the information is a bit general. I believed it would be more specific.

My third point is on skills. Rather than having a general statement on female entrepreneurs, I would like a statement outlining what we need to do from a practical point of view to encourage more women. I would like examples. The report is a bit general. I refer to the availability of skills and the question of taxation.

Child care was referred to last week, but I would not expect Ms Sinnamon to answer the question on this. It concerns circumstances in which a person has to travel. It was a very good point. I am concerned that there is not enough meat in the submission.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A number of questions have been asked.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

May I start off with the question of female entrepreneurship? We have seen significant progress, with the number of females supported increasing from 13 in 2012 to 43 in 2014. The improvement is significant. In driving the change, the first step we took was to determine the issues affecting-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Consider the scenario in which somebody becomes an entrepreneur. The economy is improving, so people will move from job to job rather than becoming entrepreneurs. We need more start-ups. If somebody goes out of business, he or she must pay social welfare and provide for all of the redundancy payments himself or herself.

Despite all the talk about encouraging entrepreneurs, the point on what we need to do about taxation is being repeated, but nothing changes. A serious issue arises in the Departments in that they are suspicious of entrepreneurs. We do not have an innate entrepreneurial culture and we do not regard entrepreneurship as we should. Entrepreneurship requires all of one's mental and physical energy. Generally speaking, one must work 24/7. It is not like a normal job. I am interested in Ms Sinnamon's experience in this regard.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Over the past few years, we have done considerable work on female entrepreneurs specifically and on determining the issues affecting them that we need to address. Five issues arose. We find that Ireland's issues prevail internationally. The first is less access to finance and the second is a lower level of risk-taking relative to men. Another is the lack of role models. Females are recognised as being more affected by role models than males. That there are fewer female entrepreneurs reinforces this. There is a lack of technical skills and a relative lack of self-confidence. We have intervened by trying to address each of these issues specifically, firstly by running competitive funds specifically for females. When we ran these funds, a number of the women failed because of the competitive nature of the funds - there is a maximum number of participants allowable - but we then encouraged them to go for general funds. Females who failed to get funding through a female-only fund were able to succeed with a general fund. This broadened access to finance and also did a lot for confidence. To be able to say that failure in the female fund had actually turned to success in the general fund was really very powerful.

We have increased the number of development programmes, some of which are network peer learning by female entrepreneurs working through going for growth. At this stage, we have put hundreds of women through such programmes. A lot of work is being done through networks all around the country in terms of encouraging people. We have launched some of these programmes in the regions, with, for example, Cork Institute of Technology, and in Dublin with DCU Ryan Academy. This is all about building the confidence and the ambition levels of female entrepreneurs to go for growth and certainly that is feeding through. There is much focus on the number of females starting businesses. As big an issue at least is the lack of growth in those businesses going forward so it has been about trying to encourage more role models. We have been sponsoring programmes to put a spotlight on the successful role models. This is very important in terms of encouraging more people into it.

Many of the technical start-ups we have supported are led by females who do not have the technical skills but they have surrounded themselves with a team of people who have such skills. We have taken each of those five areas and we have specific programmes in place on each of them. We are more than happy to go into the detail, line by line, of all of those. I will invite Ms Jean O'Sullivan in at this stage. She is the dynamo who has been doing all the work at regional level and building confidence. She has been working not only with Enterprise Ireland clients, but also with local enterprise offices and clients in every region of the country.

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

As Ms Julie Sinnamon has outlined, we reviewed a number of challenges at the beginning when we were trying to build the strategy. We went out and spoke to many people about what they felt was required to help encourage the number of female entrepreneurs to grow. It is interesting to note that the work we are doing today is not only from an Enterprise Ireland point of view, but involves lots of stakeholders out in the community working together and harnessing our relationships with different corporations and networks. As Senator White said, when one meets a female entrepreneur, one does not necessarily see those key challenges immediately, such as low self-confidence. Where we saw it reflected was that they were not applying to our funds. When we had female specific funds, they were the same funds that we were running throughout the year, which was an open offer for anybody to apply, but they were not applying for them. We had about 87 applications for our first ever female fund and typically for the same fund we were only getting 14 females to apply. That had been going on for a number of years.

The quality of the 87 propositions put forward were on par with our normal call for applications. The first questions were where were those women and why were they not coming forward to a general call and why were they not asking for support. As time went on - this programme is running for about two years - on our financial funds, not only are females benefiting from them, but the more who benefit the more publicity they are getting and then more females are applying to our general call. Where we used to have 14 people applying to our general call, we now have about 40 applying, which is a great increase. The female financial funds were only to create awareness of the fact that funding was available. When we started to speak to potential female entrepreneurs, we realised there was a lack of information to make the decision to build their businesses. Some had domestically focused businesses and had the potential to export but had not looked at the issue before because they may not have known anybody else who was currently exporting and also they did not have the information to hand as to where the supports, particularly financial, might come from to help them.

The second important issue in terms of that changed the percentages seeking investment was that we connected all those females together. Ms Julie Sinnamon mentioned role models and understanding the process of applying for funding and how one has to pool together one's business plans and all the different pillars of support that are required in order to build one's business. The online networking platform allowed females to be connected on the basis of what information they wanted to know from each other. Who are they selling to? What markets are they in? Who has been investing in their companies? What export sales programmes are they going on? Have they gone through an accelerated programme and, if so, have they found it useful?

Awareness and information has been very important to us in terms of what we are trying to do.

The role model aspect has been very important for us as well. Over recent years, we have seen reference to the same role models all of the time. Women in business who are looking at taking the leap from corporate life into starting their own businesses are seeing only a small number of visible entrepreneurs. However, there are numerous very successful female entrepreneurs in Ireland who simply do not have the same visibility. We are, therefore, trying to profile all of the opportunities. Even in the technology sphere, from a promotional point of view, anything one reads is typically about Marissa Mayer or Sheryl Sandberg. However, there are numerous women doing well in the technology field who do not have the same profile. Therefore, women in STEM subjects or STEM programmes think only a minority of women are leading technology businesses, which is not correct.

When looking at the challenges which impact on female entrepreneurs, it is important to realise that not all of the challenges impact on every female entrepreneur. Therefore, we really needed an integrated and focused programme which had actions across a number of key initiatives. One of the things we did with our development programmes was to look at the challenges and then we looked to external providers to run programmes in partnership with us. The NDRC programme, for example, focuses on females in technology. The DCU Ryan Academy programme focuses on women in a main accelerator programme who wanted to be in a female accelerator programme. The Going 4 Growth initiative looks at companies which are not necessarily start-ups but which have a keen interest in exploring the international potential of their business and growing it. This focuses on growth and peer-to-peer mentoring. Cork Institute of Technology is trying to attract those who are currently in corporate life into entrepreneurial experience.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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What is that programme called?

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

It is called the Exxcel programme. This programme runs on Friday afternoons and Saturdays. We piloted it initially to see if we could encourage more women to consider entrepreneurial activities before taking the plunge and leaving their jobs. Our portfolio of clients are mainly male. From my own reflections on the work I have been doing over the years, our male clients typically come in pairs and spin out of a company with, perhaps, another colleague. Females typically come on their own and this is because they are risk averse. They do not like the idea of someone else leaving a business to go into business with them at the initial stage. They would rather have some traction before adding someone else to the business. There are different variables which we have to consider as we go along.

The programme has been running for about two years and, as Ms Sinnamon said, at that stage, 7% of our investments were in female-led businesses. Ms Sinnamon mentioned high-potential start-ups, HPSU, and the competitive start fund, CSF. When one takes our different equity investments, 23% of our investments in 2014 were in female-led businesses. On a regional basis, 50% of them are in Dublin and 50% of them are in the regions. Overall, 81% of them are in technology. In Dublin, 82% of the investments are in technology. The figure is higher again in the regions, with 84% of female-led businesses being invested in having a technology base.

We have moved along in terms of not only the type of businesses in which we are investing but also their scalability and how they can compete in international waters. One of the pipeline issues for us is that typically entrepreneurs spin out of middle management positions within corporations of all sorts or they come from family businesses. We are waiting on more females in middle management positions who are interested in spinning out to entrepreneurial life. This is one of the pipeline gaps for us. Now that 23% of our investments are female-led, we are brought to the top of the table in terms of international investments and technology-led businesses. Around the world, about 8% of investments go into female-led technology businesses. Best-in-class outside of Ireland would be New York-Silicon Valley which is around 15%. We are leading the way in terms of our investments. The numbers in which we invest are obviously smaller because of the scale of the country, but we have made great progress. Not only this, but we are bringing others with us on this particular journey and we are working hand-in-hand with all of the stakeholders within the eco-system who are supporting this agenda.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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What else can we do to attract more women to act as role models?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

On role models, it is about getting the word out. For example, it is a fact that the percentage of our entrepreneurs who are female was 7% but that has now grown. The word on this development is not out as much as it needs to get out. I also refer to the diversity of projects in which they are involved and putting more of a spotlight on them. Certainly, one thing Enterprise Ireland has been doing is sponsoring a number of the female-focused activities. It really is about trying to get those stories out and to encourage more people.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I accept that Enterprise Ireland-----

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

It also involves working right back from the schools. A small team in Enterprise Ireland has been doing work in this regard and there has been a massive amount of support from all the existing female entrepreneurs in the country. They are doing a lot of the coaching and mentoring while continuing to operate their businesses. There are people in venture capital, VC, firms, banks and accountancy offices, that is, there is a whole raft of people who all are supportive of this and who really are opening doors.

One issue is still a lack of funding and more must be done in this regard. I am not necessarily talking about Enterprise Ireland but perhaps there should be more angel funding or getting some of the high net worth individuals and there is the ability to do more to try to address the funding issues. If one looks back over some of the work, I note that in the past two weeks, the 30% Club from the United Kingdom had its launch in Ireland. A lot of the work that club is doing is to get successful female entrepreneurs in the United Kingdom to go into the schools. This must start right back with getting this on to the agenda of children from second level and right through and this is a massive amount of work.

One other point mentioned by the Senator was the attitude to entrepreneurs. Over the past four or five years, there has been quite a move, in that there has been a less negative approach to entrepreneurs. Increasingly, people appreciate the impact in communities. There probably is not the-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I did not mean the people out there; I meant the Departments of the Government, such as the Department with responsibility for jobs. I meant the people there, who are suspicious of entrepreneurs because of the negative things I cited about taxation and so on.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

There still is an issue in respect of tax.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It is a big issue and people's knowledge-----

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Allow Ms Sinnamon to answer, please.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Entrepreneurs and capital are highly mobile and, at present, approximately 15% of our high-potential start-ups now come from overseas. These are overseas entrepreneurs, most of whom have no connection with Ireland, who have decided to come to Ireland to start a business because of the ecosystem within the country and because of the view that this is an entrepreneurial economy and is a good place in which to start a business. However, from a tax perspective, there clearly are areas involving capital gains tax, share options and so on, in which the Irish offering has become less attractive in comparison with the United Kingdom's offering than was the case previously.

There is an agenda of items. Enterprise Ireland certainly will work with our parent Department to raise these issues because while I acknowledge there has been a cash issue within the Exchequer, over time this certainly has been an issue. It was raised in the Entrepreneurship Forum report and is being raised constantly. Consequently, there are real issues to be addressed on the tax side.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chairman, I note this is a cross-party Oireachtas joint committee. As members do not get any help on writing it up or anything like that, it would be great to be given what both witnesses have said. To be honest, I found what Ms Jean O'Sullivan is saying now to be more informative than what was in the presentation.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Senator, the transcripts will be available to us all anyway.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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It takes a while for them to be published.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I think they are quite quick. I call Deputy Tóibín.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I know they are not.

To conclude, what about the food industry? What support does Enterprise Ireland have for it? It is our largest indigenous industry.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Senator, this meeting is about female entrepreneurship. Is that not correct?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I know but there are entrepreneurs in the food industry.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Yes, that is what I am clarifying with the Senator.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I refer to entrepreneurs in the food industry.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

The sector which received the highest funding from Enterprise Ireland last year was food. It represents 55% of our exports and is the most important sector. Food is not getting 55% of our funding; it is getting a bigger percentage because there have been massive capital investment programmes in food. It is seeing growth that it had not seen over the past 30 years, in particular on the dairy side, and this also is spinning off in the start-up side through the programme Enterprise Ireland runs jointly with Teagasc and Bord Bia. It is attracting male and female entrepreneurs into the early stage food side and there is a higher number of food start-ups.

We are not seeing as many large-scale start-up companies in food, something which is a key focus. We had some success last year.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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What is the difference between what Enterprise Ireland does for potential food start-ups and what Bord Bia does?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Bord Bia helps them on the export marketing side while we help them in terms of capital investment and project building. The same as we do for-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair-----

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Senator White, some of our colleagues have signalled their wish to speak and I would like to give them an opportunity.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I know, but I am the one who was writing this and I would like to-----

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. I will allow the Senator to come in later. Allow our colleagues to have an opportunity.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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What is Enterprise Ireland's relationship with Bord Bia?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

We work very closely with Bord Bia. Bord Bia would work on the trade agenda at every trade mission we do in terms of foreign direct investment for food. We are both working on Food Harvest 2020 and on the committee chaired by the Minister, Deputy Coveney. That is all of the players working together. There is a very clear blueprint so that every agency in the country involved in food knows exactly what is happening and is working together. This is a model for every other sector.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim mo chomhghairdeas leis na finnéithe maidir leis na figúirí a bhain siad amach an bhliain seo caite. D'éirigh thar barr leo. I have a couple of questions. There is a feeling of push-pull in enterprise, especially in Enterprise Ireland. It responds to the demand in society, to a certain extent, and obviously it has a role in generating demand as well. I suppose some counties still do not feel the economic increase being experienced. What can be done for those particular counties? Is Enterprise Ireland working on the national spatial strategy? Is it feeding into the development of that?

I read recently that Denmark has ten times the number of export companies that Ireland has even though it is a similar sized economy. What can be done to achieve those kinds of figures? Are there enough connections between foreign direct investment and indigenous business? How could that be improved? Are there any comparators for Enterprise Ireland internationally? Enterprise Ireland is doing very good work but could the committee be furnished with results of comparisons with other organisations, such as Scottish Enterprise or International Enterprise Singapore, which is further afield? What work is Enterprise Ireland doing with enterprise agencies in the North of Ireland?

Ms Nicola Byrne appeared before the committee last week and gave a really powerful presentation on the experience she has had in regard to female enterprise and she focused very much on the issue of supports for women. I know that could be straying into the policy domain and maybe that is not what Ms Sinnamon wants to do, but what is her experience of that in regard to child care, etc? Ms Byrne also spoke very much on issues of taxation. Again, that could be considered policy area but what are Ms Sinnamon's views on that? Ms Byrne really hammered home her view that we are focusing too much on trying to shove women into a tech box and she felt women's skills, as she put it, were not necessarily exactly the same. Rather than fit women into that existing box, she asked if there was a need to create a space that harnessed the skills she felt women had better and that maybe that would be more successful. Schools are a key area and that is where it needs to start.

I refer to the networking programmes in which Enterprise Ireland is involved. I was involved in the county enterprise board and developed a number of women's networking meetings. Are there any key performance indicators in regard to how successful they are? I know they are very well attended, etc., but are there any hard figures on new start-ups, exports, etc. that are generated from those types of investments?

What sectors have the highest incidence of female entrepreneurs? Are there any other socio-economic statistics in regard to the background of entrepreneurs because Ms Sinnamon mentioned that many of the spin-outs are occurring from middle management and management within business and corporations. I imagine many of those would not come from lower socio-economic backgrounds, etc., especially Enterprise Ireland-type businesses, although maybe more so with the county enterprise or LEO-type businesses. Are there statistics on that?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

On the Deputy's first question regarding the push-pull factor, the demand and the fact that some counties and regions are not feeling the benefit, for quite a while Dublin was experiencing the recovery much faster than areas outside of it. That is still the case but to a lesser extent. It was good to note in our results in 2014 that 66% of the jobs were outside Dublin and that every region and sector grew. That was a very different picture from the results for the previous year. In respect of the experience in terms of where our investments are going, there is an increasing amount and the food sector is a large part of client companies. There has been a significant amount of investment outside of Dublin in start-up projects. It is well spread regionally. I recognise that Dublin has been seeing a faster level of growth than the rest of the country but at least every region and every sector grew in 2014, which was encouraging.

I will ask Mr. Tom Hayes to respond to the question on how we are feeding into the development of the national spatial strategy.

Mr. Tom Hayes:

Quite a number of strategies are being prepared and I will start with those at local level. Within the next few weeks we will have a local enterprise plan for every local enterprise office from the bottom up in terms of the local enterprise office's vision for the county for which it is responsible, the strategic issues confronting the county, the objectives it will have and the metrics in terms of start-ups, expansions, jobs maintained, events and all of that. That is very much the start of it. Each local authority is undertaking consultation on the preparation of a county plan, which is the wider county plan in terms of all of the economic planning and positions within the county. The local enterprise office plan will feed into that, so that it is an integrated county plan. My understanding is that those county plans will be prepared by mid-year. That is what is happening on the enterprise side.

We are also developing regional enterprise strategies, to which Ms Sinnamon referred in her presentation. These are somewhat wider than the county. This process is an effort to look beyond the activities we are undertaking, to pull in other stakeholders and to ensure that Enterprise Ireland, the local enterprise offices, the Chamber of Commerce and the IDA - all the key players locally - work together to see how they can enhance and strengthen the work they are undertaking locally rather than each being compartmentalised. That work has started in the midlands. There will be a midlands strategy launch within the next few weeks and then it will be rolled out. The south east strategy is the next one and the plan is to have those completed by July.

With respect to spatial planning, following on from the county plans, the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government will work on those. There is an 18-month horizon for the development of those. While we have views and we are part of many local agencies, local development groups and all of that, our key input will be on the enterprise part of those in terms of planning. This week we are starting the process of each county preparing a pretty sophisticated enterprise plan for its area.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

With regard to a comparison between Denmark and Ireland, I saw a report produced by Finfacts last month on Danish exports versus Irish exports and numbers of companies involved. I was surprised by the figures and asked our planning side to have a look at it. It is very difficult to compare like with like. The figures included in the Danish figures in terms of their exports included areas such as real estate, transport, storage and retail, areas which are not part of the Irish comparator figures.

If one takes Enterprise Ireland and IDA clients, there are 1,000 IDA clients - approximately 4,000 clients in Ireland export. Enterprise Ireland has about 6,000 clients on its books and then there are the local enterprise offices. It does not count if one does not export off the island. Many people in Dundalk would say they export to Northern Ireland. It is very difficult to count the specific numbers so I am not sure about the accuracy of the numbers I saw in the report as it does not compare like with like. That is not to say there is not a challenge to try to get more people to export because if we want to grow, then export-led growth is the key. That is why the focus of the work we are doing with potential exporters is to try to encourage people who are successfully supplying the domestic market to look at new opportunities elsewhere. However, some of the figures do not compare like with like. The Danish figures and the Irish figures showed a significant differential. I would take some of them with a pinch of salt, or at least I did when I read the detailed comparison between them.

A question was asked about the difference between FDI and indigenous industry. I started my career in IDA Ireland and then moved. In the early stages there was very close collaboration between the two agencies and then they became very separate. Increasingly, in recent years there is a recognition that many of the smaller multinational companies could benefit from the work done by Enterprise Ireland with its clients. Our leadership programmes have included IDA Ireland clients, access to international markets for some of the smaller multinationals and as IDA Ireland continues to go for earlier stage companies rather than companies with massive global operations such as Intel, Enterprise Ireland offices overseas are available and are doing work with some of those multinational clients. A total of 1,000 of the top multinational companies in the world are in Ireland and it is important that local Irish companies get access to them. There is a global sourcing team in Enterprise Ireland that has been working to try to do that.

In 2014 we did our first trade mission to Ireland. We got multinational companies in Ireland into the room with small, local Irish companies as sub-supply. We got a fantastic reaction. We did it in Cork, Galway, Dublin and Limerick. We had a very strong response in the four locations. That is something we will do again. In Enterprise Ireland we have a team of people, headed up by Alan Hobbs, who helps those linkages, in particular with multinationals when they come to this country on an itinerary. We get them in on day one before they have put in place their supply chains for Ireland. That is par for the course now. There are very clear metrics between IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland to make sure that happens. For a number of years it was like two different islands and they did not operate as collaboratively as is the case now. A senior management team composed of staff from IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland work on all of the linkages. Peer to peer leadership is also part of it in terms of opening doors. The technology centres have been a really important element. The programme Enterprise Ireland runs jointly with IDA Ireland involves clients of both agencies working on technology issues which are close to market and collaborating together. Out of such collaboration business will emerge. There is a lot done and it is very much an agenda item every time we sit down with the Department and the Minister, Deputy Bruton, in terms of what is happening and to make sure it continues to grow.

The issue of comparators is one that arose when we were putting together our strategy for 2014 to 2016. The question was who do we compare ourselves with. There is not another agency in the world that has all of the functions we do. We could compare ourselves with different people in different areas. For example, when I was in Australia at the end of last year I talked to the chief executive of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise. It is very strong on the international agenda with its companies. It takes a very selective approach but it is very successful in terms of what it is doing. Tekes in Finland is very strong and very good on the technology side. Scottish Enterprise has a very strong history in terms of much of its involvement that is close to our enterprise development side and also the work the IDA does. We have very close relationships with each of those enterprise agencies and we work with them.

In fact, we recently recruited somebody from New Zealand Trade and Enterprise into one of our overseas offices, which is also a good source of information in terms of trying to learn from them. Some of our best ideas have not been our own. For example, innovation vouchers, which are really important concerning the engagement between local companies and third level, came from Holland. It is a good idea and we are happy to copy it. We are constantly engaging with all of these agencies and we have done some work in that regard. There is not an exact copy but there are bits that we learn from and compare ourselves with on each of them.

The engagement with Northern Ireland is a subject close to my heart. Last week, we had a second trade mission between Invest Northern Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and UKTI. We were at the Medtec conference with a group of companies, and brought together all the clients from each of the three agencies and the companies involved.

All of our leadership programmes are open to companies sent by Invest Northern Ireland and ourselves. Medtec is our biggest event every two years and Invest Northern Ireland companies participate with Irish companies in the convention centre.

Interestingly, Invest Northern Ireland recently tendered for a programme, to be run by themselves, which has been granted to Dublin City University. DCU ran the programme here for both agencies, so it has now got the contract to run a programme for Invest Northern Ireland. We meet with the heads and chairs of agencies, as well as government departments North and South, a number of times a year to ensure that we are all on the one hymn sheet, so there is close collaboration.

Mr. Tom Hayes:

Just to add to what Ms Sinnamon said, the Deputy asked about our operations with Northern Ireland. Alongside those, there are a number of other programmes, so I suggest that we send the Deputy a brief note. For instance, we cover the Acumen programme which is an all-island business development programme. We also run Fusion which is the technology transfer programme, as well as the Halo Business Angels network which is to help early stage investment in companies. We work with them on the student enterprise awards, which is an all-island third level undertaking. In fact, last year's winner came from Northern Ireland and this year's awards ceremony will be in Belfast. There are a number of others also, including Horizon 2020. I suggest, therefore, that we should send the Deputy a briefing covering the areas in which we work closely with our colleagues in Northern Ireland.

The Deputy also mentioned the pull factor, which is an interesting point. Rather than waiting for people to knock on the door, quite a number of our programmes - some of which have already been referred to - aim to attract, encourage, inspire and pull people in. They include the competitive feasibility funds, which are mainly run on a regional basis. We have just closed one in the south east which attracted 47 applications. By putting a spotlight on the region, it helped to attract, inspire and encourage these people to come in the door. They may not otherwise have done so without that particular programme's promotion.

There are two successful schools programmes, one of which is run by the LEOs. It has been running for some time and has been recognised in Europe. About 370 secondary schools in Ireland have participated in that programme, which involved 17,000 students in 2014. The LEOs have been running that programme successfully for a number of years.

We also run the third level student enterprise awards which have grown in significance, quality and numbers in recent years. Last year, there were close to 500 participants, while this year we expect to improve upon that significantly.

This is individuals or teams within all of the colleges working together on their project and bringing it forward, and it will be narrowed down to ten. Last year, between ourselves and the LEOs, we invested in all ten projects, such was the quality of the projects that came forward from the education system.

It would be remiss of me not to mention the Ireland's Best Young Entrepreneur, IBYE, competition, which was also to inspire and encourage the youth. It brought in over 1,000 applications from right across the country. It was encouraging and inspiring, pulling in entrepreneurs. That provides a huge pipeline of early-stage start-up entrepreneurs in companies right across the country. It culminated in an event in Dublin just before Christmas involving 24 finalists. The quality of those projects was inspiring. A number of them will have received private investment, and investment from ourselves and the LEOs also. It was a good question. Pulling those in must be a key part; we cannot merely wait for entrepreneurs to walk in the door to us.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses and appreciate them coming here.

I have a number of questions. Ms Sinnamon has regular meetings with the Minister. If she went in tomorrow and he asked what he could do to get more women into business, what would be the policy measures that he could take or the programmes he could support? On what three items would she say directly to the Minister, "Can you do something on this?" That is my first question.

Second, 23% of Enterprise Ireland's investment is going into female entrepreneurs or business people. What percentage of those are young women? That leads to my next question, which refers to the entrepreneur competition that was held. If I remember correctly, no woman in Kildare got to the final stages. What percentage of women took part in the finals of that competition? Would there be a need - it is a topical issue among us parliamentarians - for a quota system in those competitions where the final would be pure but a certain percentage of women must reach the final stages?

There is the fear of failure in every entrepreneur. What are the comparable rates of failure among male entrepreneurs and female entrepreneurs? Do females have a higher or lower success rate than their male counterparts, if there are any figures on that?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Deputy Lawlor asked, if the Minister was asked the question, what more we can do to get more women into business. That is the question the Minister asked a couple of years ago, when we were at 7%, as to what can be done. That is when we started looking at what were the issues that were stopping women going into business and that needed to be addressed.

When Ms O'Sullivan was talking, particularly about the high-potential start-up side which is the larger projects, 66% of those being supported in that regard are middle and senior managers in existing companies. In the pool that one is drawing from, given that there is a very small number of women in those positions relative to men, there is a likelihood for there to be a bias towards male applicants. Going back to the issues one is trying to address, they include access to finance, more role models, the confidence issues and technical skills. This led us to run competitive funds to build confidence, to get the role models and to continue the sponsorship.

Funding is still an issue.

That is a matter about which there is probably a need to do something. I would like to see more focus on angel funding or other sources of funding. Even with bank funding and angel funding, I still believe it is more difficult for women to gain access to funding than men.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have talked about giving young entrepreneurs access to funding because they do not have a track record. Does Ms Sinnamon suggest women should be treated in the same way?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Mr. Tom Hayes might tell us the percentages, roughly if he does not remember exactly.

Mr. Tom Hayes:

I do not know the exact percentages, but there was a significant number. I will get the numbers for the Deputy. There were over 1,000 applications throughout the country. This was whittled down and 93 of the 1,000 received a form of financial support. From my recollection, the relevant proportion pertaining to the 24 finalists is roughly one third. I can easily get the Deputy the breakdown for the 24.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Do we have an age profile? I am not sure that we do.

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

The typical age profile for all entrepreneurs is 36 to 39, and it is the same for both males and females. Last year, we ran a competitive start fund, which is our early-stage equity investment for graduates. Some 40% of the successful applicants were female. Focusing on particular areas results in different projects that we do not see daily. The age profile very much depends on the type of company one is in. We often have spin-outs from universities. They are basically in life sciences and technology. The age profile can be younger than that of those who have already been on a career path and who are spinning out of corporate life.

It is a matter of focusing on different funding initiatives. Typically women do not come forward seeking funding. When Ms Sinnamon speaks about looking for additional angel and bank funding which could probably lend itself more to use by the female entrepreneurial population, it should be noted that many reasons for the figure for women being lower concern the fact that they are not actually applying for these types of investment in the first place. Women actually approach business differently from men and often seek smaller amounts of funding as they go along. Rather than seeking a €200,000 investment, they often seek €80,000, validate their idea, seek another €80,000 and then seek another €40,000. The work we are doing on trying to create awareness concerns how to fund-raise and have a business funding strategy that will allow one to have enough money in the reserves to grow one's business and confidently take on orders, etc. We all approach business differently.

On the question of technology, I have a very practical view. All the businesses we are seeing, regardless of the sector, have technology as an underbelly. We are trying to encourage more women into STEM subjects so they will have a foundation in all levels of business, thus keeping their options open in terms of the types of businesses they may be able to build in the future.

When I refer to a lack of technical skills among the women I work with, I do not mean they cannot outsource or bring others into their teams who have technical expertise but that it is very difficult to manage a software team if one has no basic foundation in any type of technology, be it related to engineering, electronics or software. Education is the key to being able to provide all the opportunities so women can make informed decisions on which sectors will offer them the greatest potential.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

The question on quotas for women is a political one on which there will be many different views. Personally, I am very much against quotas. Business logic should win out and there should not be a quota. This has certainly been subject to significant discussion in the context of women on boards. This is what the 30% Club, which was established two weeks ago in Ireland, is about. All the facts show the impact of a diversified board. Therefore, the business logic should win out. It is a matter of educating people to understand that. The same applies to projects. I strongly oppose the potential to include quotas. It is important to use role models, encourage those who have potential and work with them as opposed to having a quota.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On the role model issue, sometimes women can be intimidated by too successful a woman standing in front of them. If role models of more modest achievement-----

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Men are the same actually.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I know that.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

In our leadership for growth programmes and in all our leadership programmes it was important to introduce people to peers who are a couple of steps along the journey, but people to whom they could relate. If we bring our companies to Silicon Valley and they are introduced to Bill Gates, he is so far beyond where they are that it is impossible. The beauty of programmes going for growth is that it is people who are working and continuing to be female entrepreneurs who are unknown to most people in the community but are working every day at the problems the people around the table are facing and they are just given the benefit of that kind of exposure. The question of making sure that role models are relevant applies across the board.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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And the failure rate?

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

I am aware that much research has been done on females on boards and the impact that has on the success of the business. My understanding of females from an entrepreneurial point of view is that they might start off at different levels but they are equally successful.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

I have not seen any research. Having looked at the projects, when we had our first female feasibility fund, not one female looked for the full amount of money. I have never seen males applying who did not look for the full amount of money. There is a pace in terms of buying projects off in smaller pieces which will probably show a smaller failure rate over a period but potentially less as they do not achieve as fast because of the aspiration. That is one of the issues in terms of working with the confidence and ambition to make sure the full potential is reached. I have not seen any specific figures; it is all anecdotal.

Anthony Lawlor (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is an opportunity for a PhD student to do that.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Yes.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Just before I go back to Senator White, I have a couple of questions.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Chairman-----

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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My apologies, Deputy Kyne. I did not see the Deputy signalling.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Chairman, and apologies for my late arrival. I missed the opening remarks but I have read the documents provided.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín touched on international comparisons. The representatives said they get the best advice from wherever they can get it. Have they looked internationally in terms of our major competitors and what they do to encourage entrepreneurship? My apologies if this has been touched on in some of the earlier questions that I might have missed.

The representatives talk about the tailored supports aimed at increasing the level of female entrepreneurship, including strong role models. Where do they see those fitting in? Is it in schools or universities? They also mentioned the boards. Notwithstanding anything that happened in the past couple of weeks in relation to boards and encouraging female representation, how do the representatives see the new system applying to publicjobs.ie? How does one encourage women to apply because often women or men may not think they are suited to a board? If there are greater levels of female participation on boards, that in itself will encourage better ideas to promote entrepreneurship.

The representatives mentioned the appropriate response that will work to fill any gaps in terms of working with universities and other Departments and agencies. We have the Springboard and ICT conversion areas. Are those the areas they are talking about? Are they talking about short courses rather than specially designed degree courses? The representatives stated that they have had very positive feedback from clients on JobBridge, Momentum and so on. Is there a correlation between attending these and setting up the businesses that have been successful?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

I will ask Mr. Maloney to take the questions on Springboard and ICT and client feedback on them.

Mr. Jerry Maloney:

The Springboard and ICT skills conversion programmes, on one side, and JobBridge and MOMENTUM on the other, are the two different halves of the solution to the skills agenda. In 2014, there were 38 colleges with 171 courses providing 6,100 places covering the Springboard and ICT skills conversion programmes. Approximately 21 of these courses were in ICT skills conversion. These programmes provided a solution in the ICT industry, in particular, in which currently there are about 1,500 tech vacancies. Even with the number of people coming through, there is still a shortfall in the provision of skills. We are looking at a number of initiatives to deal with this. One is an attraction campaign, on a web portal, to bring talent to Ireland for both indigenous and multinational companies. We are currently tendering for this as part of the Action Plan for Jobs initiative and we will expand on this.

On the specifics of Springboard, ICT, JobBridge and MOMENTUM, employers, at various stages of their growth and of various scales of business, are positive towards it, in a general context. There are people, applicants and employers, who have had a bad experience. Employers will say the quality of the applicant is not quite up to scratch. However, this is to be expected in any programme. One does not expect complete success. However, as a general rule, the feedback received is that these are positive initiatives. From the participant's perspective, approximately two thirds of people have been placed in employment from the JobBridge programme. This is a relative success. The qualification from the MOMENTUM programmes refer also to the self-employed. If a person is signing for credits without getting any payment for being on the live register, he or she can qualify for some of these programmes. There is, therefore, some back-door entry for those who were self-employed and cannot get social welfare payments to go on what is a back-to-work type initiative. This works quite well for individuals who wish to look at re-entry to the workplace.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

On the question of publicjobs.ieand women, or anyone, putting their names forward, encouragement plays an important role in this. We can refer back to the issue of role models and how success can encourage other people to do it. In the past couple of weeks, when we were talking about women on boards at the 30% Club, role models were put forward as examples of females appointed to State boards. There are registers of females who have put their names forward. There are lists of people who are available. These people have to put their hands up and put their names forward and should be encouraged to do so by their network of people. Some people within the room were giving their experience and encouraging it. It will take time for people to realise there is a different process in place and to put their names forward. However, it will have to come from the people who are interested in doing it and who have the skills set to do so. These are people such as Vivian Jupp. There are registers of people who are suitable. There are lots of people with appropriate skills, not just for public boards but for all sorts of public companies and any private company looking for board members. They will have to raise their hands.

In terms of communication and encouraging more entrepreneurship, the programme starts in schools, including at second level. In some countries, they are doing a lot at first level. It is from day 1 in terms of encouraging it, through the school programmes, universities, boards and companies. While I am not in favour of quotas, there is merit in putting, at times, a spotlight on certain figures within companies and reporting on this. In some countries, they have reported on women on boards and in senior positions. This has put a spotlight on the issue. It is not a quota, but it makes people think about the process. Getting role models to visit schools, universities and colleges from day one is important.

In terms of competitors and the entrepreneurship agenda, we constantly look at what happens in other countries.

For example, when we were looking at female entrepreneurship, as Australia is a country that is listed as having had success in this space, we looked at Australia. Ms Jean O'Sullivan may wish to comment in this regard.

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

On Australia, the interesting point was that it had parity with 50% male entrepreneurs and 50% female entrepreneurs. It is the only country in the world that has parity. One cannot compare it directly because it is a large economy and many of those companies were domestically focused in the service industry, whereas the male sectors typically were mining and engineering. Nevertheless, Australia still had parity and the research carried out to date on that parity suggested that while Australia did not have quotas for people on boards, etc., it did have quotas in political life. There is a strong correlation between women in political life and female entrepreneurship because the policies that were brought about at that point were positive within the media in encouraging women to have full participation in the workplace, whether it was in entrepreneurial life, in politics or on boards. It then became the accepted norm and while this goes back to role models again, it was more about profiling from a newspaper perspective. Interestingly, I note the correlation between women in politics and women in business.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Australia had a female Prime Minister for a number of years. Perhaps that was-----

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Yes.

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

However, while there were no quotas for women on boards, there were clear targets. It was strategically focused with a clear intent about what would be the outcome. Therefore, when all the multinationals were reporting, they all looked at their gender breakdown. One sees this happening now when, for example, Google, came out in the United States last week and gave its reports on its gender breakdown within the company, which was not very positive. All of the other checked companies then came out behind it, but this now has suddenly shone a light on why that is the case. Consequently, I think information is very powerful in those particular instances.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I have a couple of questions before coming back to Senator White. I am thinking, for example, of women who have left the workplace. It is correct that they must form a company in order to deal with Enterprise Ireland? Is that off-putting? Perhaps they receive support from the local enterprise offices in respect of establishing a company before approaching Enterprise Ireland or making a decision.

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

Actually, they are not obliged to start a company to come to Enterprise Ireland either. A lot of companies approach us initially from a feasibility point of view, where they have a clear idea of a business and need some funding to investigate whether it is a viable business model before they attract investment. Our supports at that stage are about trying to get them to bring together an investor-ready business plan and for them to realise whether the product, service or technology in question will actually be valid from an international perspective. It is only at that point that they will set up the company. Even when they are working with the local enterprise offices, typically when they are trying to build up a business, they will set up a company because we all are trying to build businesses of scale and one must set up the company to be able to employ people and get the best benefits.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I was very interested in Ms O'Sullivan's reference to mentoring because mentoring is critical in every walk of life and those who have the benefit of it have an advantage. How does Enterprise Ireland match people? For example, if women approach Enterprise Ireland with ideas, does it match them with other women or does it match them with people who would be helpful one way or the other?

Ms Jean O'Sullivan:

From the mentoring perspective, there is a mentoring area within Enterprise Ireland and approximately 23% of our mentors within the panel are female. However, we do not always recommend that a woman be mentored by a female mentor. Really, we are seeking to have a person get whosoever can offer the best advice. We find that programmes we support, such as going for growth, typically have all-female mentors. However, that is a choice that women have taken in that they want to enter a network of other women where they can see the journey on which they have gone and whether they can learn from them in a trusted environment. I am for networks in which women are mentored by women and then networks for women in which one is mentored by whoever is the best in that field.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

In the DCU Ryan Academy female propeller programme, the mentors are both male and female. At present, we have 392 mentors, of whom 53 are female. As for our mentoring assignments, approximately 600 assignments are being carried out at present, of which 165 involve women being mentored by a male or female mix, which largely is male. All our mentors are categorised by their skills set and experience.

We will try to find the best match between the need and the pool of mentors we have.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In regard to skill sets, Ms Sinnamon said Enterprise Ireland tries to address deficiencies in skills. We heard last week that there was a call for a degree in sales. Maybe only one college is delivering on that. Does Ms Sinnamon see a requirement for a full degree? Many years ago, one could get a certificate in sales techniques or whatever. Does Ms Sinnamon see a need for that? The point made was that there are some skills which women need to build on. I am not suggesting for a second that we direct people in one direction but that point was made. Does Ms Sinnamon agree with that?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

We run an international selling programme, which is quite an in-depth programme, for approximately eight months. We get salespeople in and they are put through a programme. The bottom line is a sales plan for the company. That is a fantastic programme, which we have been running with DIT for six or seven years. We also have an excel at selling programme. That is typically one day - short and sharp - to get people to look at their value proposition and to do what they do. That is our way of responding to the needs. For years, marketing seemed to be a different form of life to selling but actually selling is really important and there has not been as much focus on selling as a career path as there has been on marketing. We would certainly encourage anything that would help to drive the development of the sales skills within the country.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Another question which occurred to me during the presentation was linking with second level schools. We are trying to focus on encouraging female entrepreneurship and on what else we can do. Clearly, Enterprise Ireland is doing a huge amount, but I am really interested in what was said about going back almost to primary school, or certainly second level, as in other countries. I do not know whether Enterprise Ireland itself would do that. The local enterprise offices do terrific work in linking in with transition year students. Maybe there could be a suggestion that girls-only schools could be targeted to see how that would pan out. If we are serious about encouraging women, maybe we should do something like that. What would Ms Sinnamon think about something like that?

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Would Mr. Hayes like to take that question first?

Mr. Tom Hayes:

Yes. There is no differentiation at the moment. The biggest challenge is to increase the level of penetration in secondary schools. Approximately 35% of secondary schools in Ireland participate. One of the biggest challenges is to encourage the teachers because unless one engages with and involves them, it is very difficult. A local enterprise office cannot just walk into a school and get students to partake in the student enterprise awards. It is a challenge to get a higher level of penetration in secondary schools.

The Chairman made an interesting point now that a spotlight is being put on the female side to see if we can focus a little bit differently. In terms of secondary schools, I am not sure what the level of female participation is vis-à-vismale participation. I have been at a few of these awards ceremonies, which usually culminate in the national finals in Croke Park, and there certainly seems to be a very high level of girls participating in those programmes. It is an interesting point and maybe some other spotlight could be put on the female side of things.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In regard to third level courses, where there are a number of projects, with people working together and getting ready to enter the competitions, has any evaluation been done on the numbers of males and females, whether it is 50-50 or what the situation is in that regard?

Mr. Tom Hayes:

The student enterprise awards has been running for quite a number of years, and for quite a long time it was no more than a competition. It was maybe a rite of passage, a project or maybe part of an examination where one did something and submitted it.

One might have then gone off travelling, got a job or whatever the case may be. There has been a sea change in that respect in the past four or five years. There is now a much more serious intent among those involved in following through and establishing a business. Because of that, a number of them have gone on to be supported by the local enterprise offices and ourselves under various programmes and schemes such as the competitive feasibility fund, CFF, the competitive start fund, CSF and as high potential start-ups, HPSUs, in that some of them have got investment from ourselves.

One of the areas we focused on in that competition was to ensure that there was a cross-fertilisation of functional skills as opposed to just whether it was a male or female involved. One could have a good technical individual or a couple but they might not know how to put the proposition together from a business perspective in terms of its value, who would buy the product, how the money would be raised and how the business would be financed. It was a question of putting together the team and the ideal team is somebody who has an engineering or technical background and somebody who has a very strong commercial or business development background. If a team like that comes forward, whether its members are all male, all female, or a mix, there is better likelihood of them coming up with a better project. I have seen that from casual observation and I have been involved in this for the past four or five years. There is a very high level of female participation in those programmes.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Mr. Hayes spoke about the final that was held in the Google Foundry prior to Christmas. I was there and there was a very impressive line up of young entrepreneurs. Like Mr. Hayes, I was trying to recall how many women were involved, but there were quite a number of women there. I spoke to some of them afterwards and one of them was from Offaly, which was wonderful. She won the midlands leg of the competition and had a very innovative and different idea. I found it interesting to talk to her and she spoke about the whole process. It was one thing to be in the competition but she found the whole process very helpful and found there was learning every step of the way, even down to the networking and developing of presentations. I compliment the initiative, which is a terrific one. She said that having come through that, she knows that she will be able to go further now. The first question she asked us was how could she improve further. I was impressed having spoken to young people and hearing of the tremendous support they received and how beneficial it was to them.

Does Senator White wish to make a final comment before we wrap up the discussion?

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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I have to rush off to the Taoiseach's 2016 commemoration committee but I want to put on record that I found the personal discussion excellent. To clarify what I said earlier, it was first class.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

We can send the Senator some further detail on some of the specific programmes. It would be useful to have that detail in the context of writing up the committee's report.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Ms Sinnamon might send that to the clerk to the committee as well.

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

Yes.

Mr. Tom Hayes:

I will do that for-----

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Can I just conclude?. I will definitely be making a recommendation on the putting in place of a proper selling degree. In Ireland marketing has a snob value and a salesperson has been seen as inferior. I know that from my personal experience. However, in the United States the salespeople rather than the marketing people are the ones who are most recognised and financially rewarded. We will be recommending that from this committee.

I was very impressed by what Mr. Hayes said in terms of the strategic plans for each enterprise board. How will an equal standard that will have an entrepreneurial bias or drive be achieved in all the 31 enterprise boards? This requires passion behind it. I have said that from day one when this responsibility was given to the local authorities. Is Mr. Hayes the person in charge of all enterprise boards?

Mr. Tom Hayes:

I have heard the Senator speak on occasion and she asked about the local enterprise offices and the changeover in that respect.

I assure the Senator that we have taken them on board in terms of ensuring that we are inculcating an enterprise culture, not just maintaining it, because to be fair to the people involved in the community enterprise boards, they were very strong on the enterprise culture, but we put a huge amount of work into it last year to ensure that it carried right through into the local authorities. I will not go into all the work that went on in terms of the legislation, the development of the framework service level agreement, SLA, with the local authorities, the changeover of the systems, the branding, staffing and finance. A huge amount of work was involved. That is behind us now and we are on a roadmap. For this year there are eight or nine key deliverables, one of which is the local enterprise plans. This week we will work with all 31 heads of local enterprise offices to ensure the business plan for each county will be of the highest standard and that it is strong and will feed into the county plan, because it cannot stand in isolation and must be part of an integrated plan.

We must ensure the culture to which the Senator referred is maintained. Part of the rationale behind the scenes is to ensure the local authority has a key role to play in enterprise. It cannot just stand aside but must work hand in glove with the LEOs. That is our role and we are driving it through our centre of excellence to ensure we have better entrepreneurs, small businesses and employment spread throughout the country.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Through the Chair, there is-----

Ms Julie Sinnamon:

We have examples of best practice in local enterprise offices. The key focus for the centre of excellence is to make it consistent across all the offices. There will be a competition element in that people will see what is happening in one region and that will inspire them to do something to raise the bar. That is why the competition between the regions was a key part of the impetus in terms of people rising to the top in Ireland’s best young entrepreneur competition.

Mary White (Fianna Fail)
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Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

Marcella Corcoran Kennedy (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I thank all of the representatives from Enterprise Ireland for attending the meeting and for their presentations which were most helpful.