Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 28 January 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform

Comprehensive Expenditure Report 2015-2017: Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform

3:00 pm

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I wish to be completely civil, despite the fact that basically I was called a liar and that the document, which is the result of a year's work by officials across all Departments, is called a work of fiction. That is not a basis to begin analysis.

In the immediate aftermath of the budget Deputy Sean Fleming issued a statement along the lines of the presentation he made about the Supplementary Estimates. The budget was in October and the Supplementary Estimates were determined in December. Of course, there will be some changes. As the economic situation improved, because of the work of the Government and the hard work of the Irish people during the course of 2014, I had more scope to address outstanding issues in December 2014 than I expected to have in October 2014 when the previous budget was published. That is understandable to everybody present. In October 2013, when we published the expected expenditure profiles of 2014, I was expecting to face into 2015 with demands for further budgetary reductions of €1.3 billion. Instead of that, we had no reductions and an increase in expenditure. That was because of the really good progress the economy has made. Of course, the projections improved and we were able to provide some amelioration of pressure points when the income stream into the State and the unemployment rate improved so remarkably.

I will outline the specific details in response and rebuttal to the points made by Deputy Sean Fleming, which are just wrong. In respect of the €1.2 billion Supplementary Estimates he mentioned - they amounted to €1.27 billion - many of those, as I explained in detail, were technical adjustments. I will go through them according to each Department. In the Department of the Taoiseach, there was a Supplementary Estimate of €2 million but savings of €3 million. In the Department of Finance, there was no Supplementary Estimate but savings of €23 million. In the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, there was a Supplementary Estimate of €22 million, which we discussed in this committee, but savings of €17 million. However, we had to vote on the gross figure.

In the Department of Justice and Equality, there was a Supplementary Estimate of €84 million, with a net increase of €54 million. Although the gross figure voted for the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government was €35 million, the net figure of required additional spending was €19 million. In the Department of Education and Skills, the additional Vote was €103 million, although the net amount was €95 million. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade made a saving of €19 million. The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources made a saving of €3 million.

The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine had a notional Supplementary Estimate of €177 million but, as I explained, that was a profile difference because we did not get EU payments which we will receive in 2015. We had to account for them. We expected them last year but they will be received in this year's Estimates. The Supplementary Estimate of €162 million for the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport was money we allocated, and I explained that. It was for buying the new buses that were required and for other transport needs. We had the wherewithal to do it and spent it last year to meet a demand that presented. The Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation made savings of €19 million and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht saved €1 million. The Department of Defence had a notional additionality of €5 million but it made an actual saving of €8 million. The Department of Social Protection saved €62 million.

The vast bulk of the additionality was in the Department of Health, because we wished to provide it with relief from pressure. That amounted to €647 million. There was a balance in contingencies of €151 million savings as well. In essence, of the €1.27 billion in Supplementary Estimates the additionality was €841 million, of which the Department of Health took €647 million or 77%. I explained that at the time. I was criticised as being profligate in allocating €1.27 billion. In fact, we allocated €841 million and 77% of that went to health to address concerns about which Deputy Fleming's party was banging drums each week. It was right to do so because there were pressures that had to be addressed. We had to do that. However, that does not mean that we did not budget properly. It is just that the improved circumstances allowed us to allocate resources at the end of last year that we did not envisage we would have in the budget of 2013. I hope I have explained that to the Deputy.

With regard to the ceilings, the figures are profiled on the ceilings we have outlined and we can deal with the last CRE separately, as I do not have it before me now.

In terms of the other point Deputy Sean Fleming made regarding voted expenditure and expenditure that comes from the Central Fund, that has always been the practice since the foundation of the State. If there is a wish to change that, we can have that debate. The Central Fund, as Deputy Sean Fleming knows, is a matter for the Minister for Finance. I do not control it. It pays our salaries, the national debt, the Judiciary and other functions, all of which are prescribed by law as passed by the Oireachtas. It is not simply that we would determine that we will allocate something to the Central Fund and it would be voted expenditure. Some of it, such as loan repayments, is required by the contracts we have with those who lend us money. They have unconditional access to the repayment scheme, so it would not be conditional on an annual vote of the House. If people are to loan us money, they must know that the money will be available and provided. I hope that answers the Deputy's question.

Again, if we are reforming budgetary matters and if there should be a debate about how the Central Fund operates, let us have that debate. However, it is the Department of Finance, not my Department, that controls the Central Fund.

On the final point, Deputy Sean Fleming said the issues that arose in the Dáil this morning would indicate the Government does not wish to have debate. I assure him the Government was, and still is, most anxious to have that debate, but when the Chair makes a ruling it is as binding on the Government as it is on the Opposition.