John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The purpose of this part of the meeting is to engage with the chairperson designate of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and discuss the approach he proposes to take when he is appointed to the role and his views on the challenges facing the authority. Members are well aware of the Government decision in 2011 to bring the chairpersons designate of certain organisations before this committee. On behalf of the committee, I welcome Dr. Paraic Travers. I know he is busy in another capacity in relation to the junior certificate dispute at present. I draw his attention to the fact that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I advise Dr. Travers that any submission or opening statement he makes to the committee will be published on the committee's website after the meeting. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I ask Dr. Travers to make his opening remarks.

Dr. Paraic Travers:

I thank the Chairman and the members of the joint committee for inviting me to meet them today. I will begin by introducing myself, before addressing the approach I will take in my proposed role and my view of the challenges facing the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. I am a native of Donegal. Following education locally, I attended UCD where I completed a BA and MA in history, and the Australian National University where I completed a PhD on the administration of Ireland in the early 20th century. I have spent my career as a historian and educationalist largely in the public service in Ireland. As president and chief executive officer of St. Patrick's College in Drumcondra for 13 years between 1999 and 2012, I had responsibility for 250 full-time staff and an annual budget of approximately €30 million. I was previously lecturer and head of department at the college and dean of the joint faculty of humanities in St. Patrick’s College and Dublin City University. I have wide experience as a member of boards and statutory bodies in the educational and cultural field. I have served as a director of the Central Admissions Office and as a member of the Teaching Council. I was a member of the governing authority of Dublin City University for 14 years. As a founding director and vice-chair of the Centre for Cross-Border Studies in Armagh, I played an active role in promoting North-South co-operation for more than a decade. I was also a founding member and chairman of the North-South standing committee on teacher education, which was established under the Good Friday Agreement.

As a historian, I have taught, researched and published on modern Irish history, emigration and the Irish diaspora. I have lectured widely in Ireland, Britain, the United States and Australia. My publications include works on Parnell, de Valera, emigration, Irish culture and nationalism. I was a founding director of the Parnell summer school and am currently the chair of the Parnell Society. I am a member of the Irish universities historians committee on the decade of commemoration. I have been editor and chair of the editorial board of Studia Hibernica, the Irish studies journal, and have served on the board of a number of other journals. As an educationalist, I have been involved in the promotion of blended learning and digital technologies in teaching. I played a leading role in the establishment of TeachNet, the online community for teachers, and served as its chair for many years. As an honorary life member of the Irish Association of Teachers in Special Education, I have an ongoing interest in access and disability issues. I have had experience of industrial relations and trade union affairs in a number of capacities. As the Chairman mentioned, in recent months I have been acting as mediator in the dispute on junior certificate reform, at the request of the secondary teacher unions and the Minister for Education and Skills.

I am honoured to have been nominated to chair the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. The authority has an able chief executive officer and experienced staff who have responsibility for operational matters. I look forward to working constructively with them. I also look forward to working with the new board, which will have an appropriate balance of skills and experience for the fulfilment of its mandate.

The duties of the chair and of the board are clearly outlined in Part 2 of the Broadcasting Act 2009. The role of the board is focused on governance, policy and strategy; the role of the chair is to manage the board. I would like to acknowledge the work of Bob Collins and the outgoing board in establishing new structures, introducing key policies and regulating and promoting the sector

I have a deep commitment to public service and a long-standing interest in the educational and historical dimensions of broadcasting. In October 1958, Edward R. Morrow, the doyen of broadcast journalists said in regard to television, "This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is only wires and lights in a box". Morrow was speaking to radio and TV directors. His speech was a challenge to broadcasters to fulfil the potential of the broadcasting medium. That challenge remains as relevant today as it was 60 years ago. If anything, with dramatic social change in Ireland and the impact of globalisation and new technology, it is even more so. A healthy, vibrant democratic Republic is in part dependant on a healthy, vibrant and diverse broadcasting sector.

The BAI has an important strategic as well as a regulatory function. The outgoing board has adopted a strategic plan for the years 2014-16, which I enthusiastically endorse. My role is to ensure that this strategic plan is implemented. That strategy focuses on serving the needs of Irish society and ensuring that viewers and listeners have access to a diverse range of broadcasting voices and services. The underlying core values include protection of the public interest; fairness and proportionality; independence and impartiality; professionalism and commitment to learning; accountability, transparency and cost-effectiveness; and cultural and linguistic diversity. The overall vision is that the BAI should be trusted by the public, by broadcasters and by legislators to service the viewing and listening needs of Irish society.

Inevitably there will be significant challenges in implementing this strategy. Internally the authority contains two statutory committees – contract awards committee and compliance committee – each with its own remit prescribed by the Act. Mindful of the independence of these committees, it is my responsibility to ensure that the board as a whole works together as a strong, cohesive organisation.

If the authority is to be a trusted and informed voice on broadcasting and other media matters, it will need to engage more with the public and with other stakeholders. In fulfilling its regulatory brief, it will need to be adaptable and reduce unnecessary bureaucratic and administrative burdens, both on those who make programmes and on those who view or listen to them. Following extensive consultation the authority has developed a series of codes for the guidance of programme-makers, including the code of fairness and impartiality and, most recently, the code of programme standards and the BAI access rules which were launched yesterday. I welcome the access rules, in particular, as they address in an incremental way, with a view to enhancing their enjoyment of programmes, the needs of those who are deaf or who have a hearing impairment or those who are blind or partially sighted. The code of programme standards to be observed by programme-makers is also an important and timely landmark. In ensuring that such rules and codes are fair and appropriate, the authority will need to ensure a balance between viewer and listener expectation and the wider global media market where lesser regulation may exist.

The authority’s overall strategy is predicated on ensuring the strength of public, commercial and community broadcasting sectors in the face of a challenging financial environment and significant external competition. The BAI is committed to maintaining a strong, public service broadcaster while at the same time vindicating the requirement for accountability and transparency in the use of public funds.

The authority will continue to encourage and support high quality programmes through the Sound and Vision scheme which is having a significant cumulative impact. More than €70 million has been allocated under this scheme over the past five years. Notable recent examples of programmes supported under the scheme are, "One Million Dubliners", "Charlie", "Red Rock", "The Guarantee", "Corp agus Anam" and "Song of the Sea". The latter, which has recently been nominated for an Oscar, received €500,000 support from the Sound and Vision scheme. The authority will continue to support learning and development initiatives which build expertise locally and enhance the quality and diversity of programming.

The broadcasting environment is changing and challenging. The difficult economic context, diminishing advertising revenue, increased competition, particularly from abroad, new technology and media, all inhibit initiative and development. However, the paradoxical pattern of ever-increasing choice and diminishing quality, is not inevitable. Ed Morrow threw down the gauntlet to broadcasters and regulators in his day. He challenged them to ensure that TV and radio educated, illuminated and inspired because otherwise, it was just wires and lights in a box. We should not hesitate to embrace Morrow’s challenge while reshaping it for an Irish context. To that end, I look forward to working with the board, the broadcasters, the Minister, the Department and the members of this committee. Go raibh maith agaibh.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Dr. Travers. The motto is when one needs a job to be done, ask a busy person. He has outlined a very busy schedule.

Michael Moynihan (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome Dr. Travers to the meeting and I wish him the best of luck. In the first instance I ask Dr. Travers if he is or has ever been, a member of a political party. I note that Dr. Travers's CV is impressive. Before we deal with the subject matter of the meeting I wish him well in finding a resolution to the important issue of the general certificate.

I also wish Dr. Tavers well in his position as chairperson designate of the BAI. He will be facing challenges in that role when one considers the changes in the broadcasting sector such as new platforms and his role will be to ensure that there is a fair and equitable broadcasting system for the country. The committee has just spoken to the chairperson designate of RTE. There is a concern that some of the broadcasters do not give a fair and due recognition to people outside the Pale or to their concerns and issues. In my view it takes significant effort or the emergence of a big issue before any recognition is provided. There is a need to adjust the balance between the Pale and the rest of Ireland. We need a balance in broadcasting to reflect all of society and every issue in society. In so far as possible, Dr. Travers should ensure that there is value for money for public funding being provided to all sectors of the media.

I refer to independent broadcasters, many of whom are under serious financial pressure. I ask him to comment on the provisions of the Broadcasting Act. The independent broadcasters are providing a community or a social form of media - that may not be the correct term - but what I am trying to say is that they are providing a very valid resource for communities all over the country and it may be time that we looked at the possibility of funding them as well because they are providing a massive public service without the funding behind it. I ask Dr. Travers to comment on those points. I wish him well in his role. I note the various roles he has held. I am particularly interested in his work on Irish culture and nationalism.

I would love to get stuck into some of them. Some day when I have time. I wish Dr. Travers well in his role and invite him to comment on my remarks.

Dr. Pauric Travers:

I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of a political party. On the issue of the Pale, I agree absolutely, the concern that sometimes arises about narrow vision in the Dublin media needs to be borne in mind and addressed. RTE is a national broadcaster with a national remit. Local provision comes from local and regional outlets but if there is a perception that there is a “within the Pale” mentality it must be fought against. I have been out of Donegal since 1971 but I retain those roots and that loyalty. Most people, even those who have lived in Dublin or within the Pale for a very long time, tend to have that outlook. In so far as narrowness might creep into the vision of a Dublin-based media it must be fought in various ways.

I accept the difficulties independent broadcasters have encountered, particularly during a time of financial difficulty, with reduction in advertising revenue and so on. That has been improving somewhat. The sound and vision scheme I mentioned has benefitted independent broadcasters very significantly. Some of the work of independent producers finds its way back to RTE. The authority has been very conscious of trying to support and nurture local and community radio and has used the sound and vision scheme to do that. The significant improvement in the funding under sound and vision has gone to independent radio. One of the welcome developments is that radio drama, which used to be the sole preserve of RTE radio, has emerged from local radio stations with the support of the sound and vision scheme.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome Dr. Travers. Would he be one of the Ballyshannon Travers?

Dr. Pauric Travers:

Yes. We are near neighbours I am sure.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I know the lie of the land. I live in Manorhamilton, just down the road from Ballyshannon. Dr. Travers has a very impressive CV and I have no doubt that he will be an inspirational chairman of the BAI.

The regulatory function of the BAI is quite well known among the public but the strategy setting function less so, even among politicians. It is good to have the strategy for 2014-16. It will have to be a rolling strategy because as the market and technology change, it will have to be continually updated. I am sure Dr. Travers accepts that. The earlier speaker referred to a reduction of 500 staff and an expenditure reduction of €130 million over the past few years in RTE. I am sure that was not solely because of BAI but because of reduced revenue from advertising and Government. What role, if any, does the BAI have? How is its responsibility for value for money exercised? There is a lot of discussion about media monopolies or dominance by key individuals in the market. What is the BAI’s responsibility for that and how is it discharged?

Dr. Pauric Travers:

I fully agree with Deputy Colreavy that the public is more aware of the regulatory role of the BAI than of its significant role in the overall strategic development of this sector. In some respects that strategic area is particularly important. One of the tasks I and the incoming board will have is to ensure there is a wider understanding because we are at a significant point in the development of broadcasting, nationally and internationally. It is very important that we have a clear vision of that.

The BAI has a direct role in routinely reviewing the funding going to RTE, which it does annually. There have been significant reviews, including one fairly recent external review of the overall funding for public broadcasting out of which several recommendations emerged. The authority considered the report and made recommendations to the Government. RTE's revenue has been diminishing and it would like increased funding. It is the role of the BAI to advise the Minister on that. The previous authority took the attitude that it would support increased funding to RTE, even for its public service role, but only on specific conditions partly related to increased domestic programme production, but also as part of a strategy to begin to re-balance advertising revenue because RTE is competing for advertising with the commercial sector. If RTE is to get increased funding for its public service role it will, as a quidpro quo, begin to re-balance the limits on revenues that might come from advertising. The answer to the overall question is yes, the BAI has a very direct role in respect of the funding and direction of public service broadcasting.

It also has a role in advising the Minister on media monopolies and the Broadcasting Act 2009 refers to ownership. Arising from that, and particularly from the aspiration within the Act to ensure diversity and a range of voices, the BAI developed a code on media ownership. The most recent code was issued in 2012. After that code was adopted it had something to say about a particular situation that arose in one sector. The situation for ownership and mergers and so on has changed as a result of the Competition and Consumer Protection Act 2014 and the guidelines now issued under the Act. The guidelines and the Act contain a section about protection of the public interest. They also contain a provision that the Minister may ask for the view of the authority about any proposed acquisition or merger. I would expect if the situation arose the authority would advise on its view.

Finally, the authority intends to review its code on media ownership in light of more recent developments. This will be part of its 2015 work programme.

Michael Colreavy (Sligo-North Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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Will that be confined to the broadcast media or the wider media?

Dr. Pauric Travers:

It will be broadcast media although the Act does include the possibility of the authority having something to say about press ownership. However, that would only be if the Minister asked it to examine that area.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I am not a member of this committee and thank the Chairman for allowing me to raise several questions. I welcome Dr. Travers and wish him well in his new role as chairman of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, BAI.

We all value the independence of the BAI's role, its fairness, proportionality and encouragement of broadcasting to reflect cultural and linguistic diversity. Dr. Travers stated he embraces the principles of the broadcaster Edward R. Murrow and wants to reshape them to assist Irish broadcasting. The BAI, RTE, as well as the Department, always claim it is not possible to have a quota system for the broadcasting of all genres of Irish music, including country. Coming from Donegal, Dr. Travers will be familiar with that genre and its great singers from Donegal, such as Daniel O’Donnell, Margo and everybody else. France was faced with the same problem but it defined its music as a cultural asset and imposed airtime quotas for Francophone music on its broadcasters. It felt its music culture was being Americanised and falling foul of internationalism, resulting in its culture and language being wiped out and overcome. It is extraordinary the way our major radio stations play international pop music rather than Irish music. The introduction of a similar quota system to that in France could be important in helping Irish music. We must acknowledge that Irish music, across all the genres and at a cultural level, has been growing organically out of Ireland.

Will Dr. Travers give consideration to such a quota system to ensure the national radio broadcasters give a fair crack of the whip to Irish and country musicians? Local radio stations dedicate good airtime to country music while they are in a very competitive listenership environment. For example, Midlands 103 FM has the “Country Roads with Joe Cooney” programme every night, giving ten to 11 hours every week, while Shannonside FM has Joe Finnegan and Frank Kilbride broadcasting country programmes. These stations are in a very competitive listenership environment, getting no licence fee but they are giving an opportunity to those musicians, as well as young musicians. This helps grow the industry. Is there any way Dr. Travers will get rid of these platitudinous excuses that emanate out of various authorities, including the BAI, and make a genuine effort to give these musicians a chance? There should be no more lip-service. We pay lots of lip-service to various matters but forget about them. I am like a dog with a bone about this. I must state I do not have any interests in the music industry. I am not a band manager or a musician.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no conflict of interest.

Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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There is no conflict of interest. I just have a genuine interest in ensuring Irish musicians get a fair hearing. Many in the west feel Irish music does not get a fair crack of the whip.

Some lawyer will come up with how a quota system will be contrary to some EU regulation. If the French can get over it, we should be able to develop a level of ingenuity to ensure we get over it and that our musicians get appropriate airplay.

Recently, when the BAI issued a radio licence, it stated 20% of airplay was to be for country music. There is no reason that cannot apply to RTE. Let it have dedicated programmes on a nightly and weekly basis to give opportunities to those artists to highlight their talents while allowing the public the chance to hear them. The public is going elsewhere. It is important we reflect Irish music as a cultural asset and develop it organically.

Dr. Pauric Travers:

I sympathise with the point made by the Deputy. I too have no vested interest in music other than having a strong interest in listening to all kinds of Irish music. How impressive Irish music is across the board in its range and quality is acknowledged internationally. That should be reflected on the national airwaves and locally. I compliment local radio stations on what they do in this area. I listen to Ocean FM rather than Highland Radio because I am from south Donegal. I note its listenership figures for Irish music airtime are very impressive. The commercial radio sector does not have any specific requirements. However, when they apply for a licence, as part of their submissions, they are asked about the commitments to Irish music. Part of the role of the authority is to monitor that. By and large, they are doing a an outstanding job because there is a listenership market for this music.

The Deputy may well ask why that should not apply nationally. Clearly, a broader range of interests have to be served nationally. I could point to very significant programmes on RTE, TG4 and Raidió na Gaeltachta that contain a significant amount of Irish music. It is appropriate to monitor and promote this.

On having a French system of airplay quotas, the French have a long tradition of that both in film and music. They argue this on cultural grounds but there is a specific linguistic issue in France which makes the French analogy not quite identical to the Irish one. Rather than going down the French route, it would be more preferable to persuade people of the quality of Irish music, both traditional and in other genres. The proof of the pudding is in the high listenership figures for those local radio programmes. I agree that, in so far as there is a perception that this market is not well served by the national broadcaster, we should encourage it to do so.

John O'Mahony (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank Dr. Travers for attending the committee this morning and engaging with us in a frank and forthright way. We will send a copy of the Official Report of this meeting to the Minister. On behalf of the committee, I wish him well in his new role as chairman of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and look forward to engaging with him in the future.