Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees
Thursday, 15 January 2015
Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement
Cross-Border Theatre Projects: Smashing Times Theatre Company
10:10 am
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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On behalf of the committee I welcome Ms Freda Manweiler, company manager, Ms Mary Moynihan, company director, and Ms Olivia O'Hagan, board director, of the Smashing Times theatre company. Arts and culture initiatives play a fundamentally important role in bringing communities together and fostering cross-Border co-operation. The committee is very interested in hearing about the cross-Border project in which Smashing Times is involved and we hope today's discussion leads to greater understanding of how a project can be brought to fruition and the responses on both sides of the Border.
The witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their utterances at the committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only comments and evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a Member of either House, a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
I am Mary Moynihan, company director of Smashing Times theatre company. We are specialist artists and good relations facilitators working in the area of peace building and reconciliation, conducting a range of projects, including the Memory Project and Acting for Peace. This year is the 17th year of the Belfast or Good Friday Agreement, which has delivered many successes, particularly moving on from the violence that was once a daily fact of life and claimed many victims. We thank the political leadership and members of successive and current Irish, British and US Governments for the outstanding work done on promoting the peace process and for recognising the importance of working together for peace and reconciliation.
The Smashing Times theatre company is a professional company involved in performance, training and participation. The work is underpinned by a rights-based approach and a commitment to artistic excellence and social engagement. The company has five high-profile patrons, Sabina Higgins, first lady, Áras an Uachtaráin, Joan Freeman, head of Pieta House, Ger Ryan, actor, the playwright, Brian Friel, and history writer, Tim Pat Coogan. Past and current funders have included Dublin City Council arts office, the European Union PEACE III programme, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the International Fund for Ireland.
"The stage is a dangerous place else it's not worth visiting", said Chris Johnson in House of Games. We have presented performances, workshops and seminars reaching more than 21,000 people in the past two years. During the past five years the company has successfully managed budgets of in excess of €1 million. We have conducted work in all of the counties in Northern Ireland and in the southern Border counties as well as in the majority of counties elsewhere in Ireland. The majority of our work addresses peace building and reconciliation, including anti-racism, anti-sectarianism, gender equality and human rights. A major part of our work relates to positive mental health and suicide prevention throughout Northern Ireland and elsewhere in Ireland, using high-quality theatre and arts projects.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
As Ms Moynihan said, the key projects run by the company are the Memory Project, Acting for Peace, Acting for the Future and Theatre for Change. The Memory Project is our largest project. It is an innovative and ground-breaking arts project using drama, theatre and a television documentary to deal with the history of conflict and promote a peaceful and shared future for all. It is implemented by Smashing Times with the Corrymeela Community, High Wire and in association with the Conflict Archive on the Internet, CAIN, as well as the University of Ulster International Conflict Research Institute, INCORE.
This cross-Border project is funded through PEACE III. It has reached more than 4,000 young people and adults through storytelling, human rights workshops, theatre performances and post-show discussions. Events are held in schools on tour throughout Northern Ireland and the Border counties, including Belfast Festival at Queen's and the Lyric Theatre. All events to date have been recorded on film, and footage has been used in a one-hour television documentary which will be broadcast in 2015. In addition to the Memory Project, we run many other cross-Border projects addressing issues of peace and reconciliation, all delivered under the banner Acting for Peace.
Another project we run on a cross-Border basis is Acting for the Future. It uses drama and theatre to promote positive mental health and suicide prevention. It is run with the Samaritans and the Irish Association of Suicidology and is funded through ESB ElectricAID Ireland and the HSE lottery grants. The project has been independently evaluated and is recognised as an example of best practice in how it was organised and delivered. An upcoming project, Drama for Change, is a three-year partnership project to be run with four other European partners. It will use creative methods to promote anti-racism, equality and diversity. This is being funded through Erasmus Plus.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
In the past two years we have created two original performances, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and "Uprising". "Thou Shalt Not Kill", by Paul Kennedy, is presented in the form of living theatre installations. Stories are gathered from local communities whom we work with and are presented to the communities in the form of dramatic performances. This is always followed by a post-show discussion on the themes presented. Current stories in these performances centre on the journey of a paramilitary from violent action to engagement in peace, a story about a couple involved in a cross-community relationship and the story of an ex-member of the Greenfinches.
Our second play, "Uprising", is scripted by Tara McKevitt and devised by the company. It explores the Troubles through the eyes of the rap or hip-hop generation. It juxtaposes stories from the past with contemporary music and the lives of young people today. "Uprising" engages the audience not only in an examination of the past but in a quest for a vision for the future as well. Our company creates living theatre. These original performances are a combination of fiction and real stories; true fiction, in that the work is fiction yet based on fact. Everything expressed on stage has actually happened. Teachers and youth workers have pointed out to us that sometimes they work with vulnerable young men and women who may be at risk of being recruited into violent activity. Watching performances and then taking part in the discussion offers a valuable forum through which alternative messages can be given. A young person interviewed following a performance said his parents believed they were raising him in a secular non-political environment but the messages seeped through and that the performance and post-show discussion had given him a broader understanding of the issues involved. A young person in Donegal said that she knew about the history but that no one ever talked to them about this stuff and that they needed to have these conversations.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
The company has developed four specific drama-based workshop models. These address anti-racism, anti-sectarianism and gender equality and use storytelling to promote reconciliation. Workshops always begin with theatre games and exercises to introduce the issue, develop creativity and confidence and prepare participants for improvisation. Improvisation, for example, on issues of racism and sectarianism, enables participants to use their bodies and emotions to put themselves into different roles and to stand in the shoes of others. Participants rehearse alternative approaches to conflict in a safe environment which they can then choose to use in their daily lives. A similar process is used in storytelling through drama workshops. Shared storytelling is a way to recognise and acknowledge the hurts that have been inflicted and explore the idea that my truth is not necessarily another's truth. By listening to other people's stories, participants are hearing about a different reality to their reality.
Smashing Times supports cross-Border, cross-community arts projects and believes they are key to long-term and lasting reconciliation between communities. The arts play a powerful role in discussing divisions that still exist and how we move forward in respect of dealing with the legacy of violence, addressing issues around flags, emblems, parades and protests as well as the fact that sectarianism, racism and gender inequality still exist. They raise questions on how we can express our identities while respecting the identities of others.
One striking feature of our work is that when we first work with a group, they hold an initial belief that racism and sectarianism does not exist in their community. However, through the process of the workshop and performances, people gain a deeper understanding of its presence and need to be alert to it. Recently, I worked with a group in Craigavon. When we went in initially, the young people said there was no racism or sectarianism in their communities and that it did not exist. However, during the workshop, one young Catholic girl, 15 or 16 years of age, said that she went out with a Protestant but she felt intimidated when it came to going into his estate. She said he was also intimidated when it came to going to GAA events at which she socialised with her family. Her view was that both sets of parents felt that the relationship was not necessarily a good thing. She said that in future she would not go out with a Protestant because it was too difficult. This is the view expressed by a young girl who has grown up post-Good Friday Agreement. Certain issues need to be addressed, including the issue of expression of culture, gatekeepers, fear of paramilitaries, the so-called peace walls and interface violence.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
We are calling for more recognition, visibility and funding for arts-based companies that use creative processes to promote peace building, reconciliation and community relations at grassroots level throughout Northern Ireland, Border counties and on the island of Ireland. Sabina Coyne Higgins has become a patron of Smashing Times theatre company, a mark of support for arts-based work to promote peace building and reconciliation. The support of political leaders can lead the way in recognising and making visible grassroots arts work. We have secured funding from the Erasmus Plus programme in Europe to build on the anti-racism work we have been doing in Northern Ireland. The idea is to work with European partners to adapt what we have learned and to apply it in a Europe-wide context.
It is important systems are put in place to support and enable the learning gained from the peace process in Northern Ireland in order that this learning can be distributed across Europe and in other conflict zones in order that people do not continue to reinvent the wheel. Worthwhile academic papers will have been published on the peace process, but we also need arts-based practical manuals and models of practice which other practitioners can take off a shelf and adapt to their communities. We also need more structures in place to ensure an organisation like Smashing Times theatre company can operate more easily across our two jurisdictions and to ensure we can access accreditation for training that is the same for both jurisdictions.
We thank committee members for listening to our presentation and for affording us the opportunity to address the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. The aim is to use creative processes to build a society based on mutual respect for all people, regardless of background, and where social justice, non-violence and equality exist for all. We will be delighted to answer any questions members may have.
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Moynihan for her interesting presentation. It is obvious the work in which she has been involved and this presentation cover a wide area of activity that works to address a significant number of issues of critical importance. In her presentation she mentioned that Acting for the Future uses theatre to promote positive mental health and suicide prevention, an area of significant importance for society. This issue is not just critical for young people but for older people as well. Unfortunately, all age groups are afflicted by suicide and mental health difficulties. Any presentations, productions and work in that area which get across a message and act towards prevention are extremely important.
Ms Moynihan mentioned work in both the Six Counties and the Border counties of the South. What presentations have taken place in these Border counties and what level of activity has Smashing Times had in the Cavan-Monaghan area or the other Border counties of the South? It is critical that this work has a solid basis for planning for the future and I hope it is supported and funded. Is the company reaching out to people in the most disadvantaged areas? We are all aware that it is often people from more affluent areas and from more settled communities with a good standard of living who are more likely to attend arts activities, and often these important and welcome productions do not reach the less well-off in society.
This committee has had formal presentations made here, but often when we visit communities in the Six Counties, whether loyalist or Nationalist communities, we learn that those communities feel disenfranchised and that they are not benefitting to the extent they should from the dividends that follow on from the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement. Therefore, we need to ensure that those communities at particular disadvantage are targeted specifically in the work of Smashing Times.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
Absolutely. It would be the 100% focus of our work to work with people from the most disadvantaged communities. We presented performances in Cavan and in Monaghan, in the Ramor and the Garage theatres. Also, when we brought the performance into those theatre spaces, we contacted youth and community groups in the area. We definitely attracted and brought in youth groups to see the performance.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
From the beginning, the company has focused on working in areas of disadvantage. We do so particularly because theatre is an accessible medium which can engage young people who might otherwise not be engaged in activities happening around them. We have had a number of independent evaluations and feedback from community workers on this. For example, we have worked with a community group where the youth workers have told us the group does not engage in any of the activities set up, but they sit and listen to what we are doing and engage with our work. We are continually being asked to come back to work with groups that might be designated as difficult or who are difficult to engage with. Our work seems to engage them.
It is important we go in and work with young people and that we listen to them and hear what they have to say. We have performances, but there are also workshops and these workshops enable the young people to become part of the work and central to the process, particularly in the area of suicide prevention. We have worked with the Samaritans and the Irish Association of Suicidology since 2005. We have visited schools in the Border counties of the South and have recently started to work in Northern Ireland on suicide prevention work. There is huge demand for this work because of what is happening and the Samaritans and the Irish Association of Suicidology are very supportive of that work because they believe it engages with young people and is getting the messages across to them. Feedback from teachers supports this and we are continually invited back to schools to work with young people.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
Young people, in particular those of a certain age, are a tough audience. They are super critical of what we present and it is the quality of the performance, the actor and the story that keeps them engaged. We often visit a school with an actor and the kids are sitting slouched in their chairs giving out the message "Impress us", because that is the nature of that age group. I have sat at the back of the room and watched what happens. They are engaged first because it is a live performance. They have not seen an actor before and might start to giggle initially, but as the story unfolds and as the actor presents his or her craft, the kids start to sit up, silence falls over the room and they become completely engaged. I always feel there is a moment where we can go: "We've got them now." Afterwards, they can ask questions about the story, which seems slightly removed from the issue, but is the issue. It is not like one person telling his or her story. It is removed from the individual. Then we have a discussion about the character and what he or she would do. This is how it works.
Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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In regard to education, I have a concern in regard to people out of the formal education system. We have a programme called Youthreach, which provides second-chance education to young people. Coming from Cavan and Monaghan, Deputy O'Reilly and I are aware of a number of centres providing successful Youthreach programmes. Has Smashing Times engaged with that sector? If not, will it consider targeting that area in the future? People on these programmes are back in second-chance education and many of them gain a good qualification, go on to further education and take up useful employment. This cohort might be an area the company should consider targeting.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
We have worked with Youthreach in the Cavan-Monaghan area and they came to some performances. I remember seeing them in the back row at "Uprising" and because there was music involved, I remember seeing them dancing around and completely engaging with the performance. The Deputy is right that we need to focus on this particular client group.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the group for its presentation. I believe that where Smashing Times misses out is the areas of Acting for Peace and Acting for the Future. In Acting for the Future, the group must show the reasons there is conflict, why sectarianism exists and continues to exist and why social, political and economic inequality are a contributing factor. It must also be shown that the fact there is not a more integrated educational process is a contributory factor.
There is rampant sectarianism in the Six Counties and, equally, there is a growing problem with racism. Even today a number of people are being charged for killing a Chinese man, for whatever reason. In regard to racism, one has only to look at the events of the past week, the killing by Boko Haram of 2,000 black people, who were badly treated, and those who were killed in Paris, which was also disgraceful.
I commend the representatives on the work they are doing. In order to achieve the aims of Acting for the Future, one has to reach young people. Are the representatives going into cross-community schools in the Six Counties and in the Border region, including south of the Border? With what age group are the representatives dealing? It strikes me that the younger one can influence children in terms of Acting for the Future, the better. They have said that much of their work is in the more economically deprived areas, where there is probably more sectarianism. Have they challenged the role of the structured perpetuity of sectarianism by the State? The role of the State is significant in terms of reconciliation, peace and so forth. In order to achieve what we want to achieve, we must identify the mistakes of the past. The witnesses mentioned that part of it is challenging the role of parliamentarians, but they must also challenge the role of the State. I would like to hear whether they have done so.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
First, with regard to the European dimension of our work, we are thankful that we received Erasmus Plus funding to roll out this particular project on anti-racism. At the moment we are working on one with youth groups across Europe. Yesterday I was in contact with some groups in Germany and France as well as Croatia. They want to work with us so we can roll out what we have learned in working with you and train and build capacity with youth groups across Europe, based on what we have learned and our understanding from working on a cross-Border and cross-community basis in regard to the conflict. They are keen to have our knowledge and to work with us.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
What is particularly interesting about our company is that we like to work in partnership with other organisations. For example, we are artists and we like to work in parishes with people who work in reconciliation or in dealing with racism or, for example, with people who are experts in the area of suicide. Part of their role would be to look at the State structures with regard to racism or sectarianism. One is bringing together people working to combat racism and sectarianism to work with artists. The role of the artist is not to tell people what to do but to engage people in a discussion on what is happening in society and to encourage critical thinking so that people can question what is happening in their society. Part of that questioning with young people would be to question institutional structures if they are going against equality. We are very much on the side of promoting peace and equality of opportunity. Our role is to go in and maybe raise awareness of those issues and then encourage young people to question what is happening in society. In that way one is getting solutions from people on the ground, which is important.
Ms Olivia O'Hagan:
I am a past participant in a couple of the programmes. As I had lived in a very sheltered environment in Northern Ireland where there was a lot of sectarianism, the opportunity of going on a programme was of tremendous value to me. It raised my confidence and helped me reach out to other communities with which I never had any links in the past. It made me realise that their issues were exactly the same as ours. That helped me greatly in promoting the work of Smashing Times and going into other communities and working with them. It has encouraged me to realise that equality is very much on the agenda and is part of the Smashing Times theatre company work. In working as facilitators and building up a group of facilitators throughout the Border counties, in the South and in Northern Ireland, we have built up their confidence to develop the skills of those people whom we favour in our society. That is where the facilitation courses have helped me and those in other communities.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The witness stated that the company secures funding from Europe for the anti-racism work and that they have shared what they have learned in Northern Ireland across Europe. I understand there are gaps in the funding where the company ran a cross-Border issue. How can the committee help fill those gaps and what are the outstanding issues?
Ms Freda Manweiler:
Historically, the majority of our funding has come through the Special EU Programmes Body. Through that we build up connections, relationships, skills, etc., but that funding stops for a period while it is renegotiated. Then there is a gap in funding for many organisations similar to ours. It is a huge loss to the peace and reconciliation movement when skilled individuals who have contacts on the ground suddenly have to take a step back for a while. When the money comes back one has to kick the machine into gear again. There is a little money on the ground, but there probably needs to be a lot more.
Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the representatives, whose presentation I enjoyed. I am from Galway, which is often known as a city that promotes the arts. I hope the company might present in Galway some time, if it has not already done so. I was interested in the name of the theatre, Smashing Times. It is a great name and perhaps the witnesses might tell us the history of it. If one is smashing sectarianism or racism, which would be a good idea, it is very appropriate. Whether it is Galway, Sligo, Waterford or Dublin, theatre companies have very good names and often there is a message in the name of the company.
It is important that what the company is doing continues, particularly in schools, and its work with vulnerable people, those on the margins and those with disabilities. Given the way the school curriculum is structured, these issues do not get discussed. While I was a Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs for a year, I recall visiting many countries in Africa. Teenagers there were more inclined to act out issues in the classroom, such as violence and, in particular, domestic violence, and were not afraid to do so. Sometimes in our education system we are afraid to talk about these issues.
What the representatives are doing is great. I like particularly the music part of it, which is very important. One of the witnesses mentioned that the stage is a dangerous place. I hope it is not as bad as the Abbey Theatre was years ago, when there were riots. Nowadays we accept some of the things we may not like to hear off the stage, but it is good for our conscience and our experience to hear those. I think our committee would like to support what the representatives are doing. We have not had too many groups appearing before the committee from the arts area. It is usually some other committee that talks to people in the artistic and creative world. The Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, which is a very good Department, deals with such issues. The European issue is important, as is the experience of people seeing live performances.
I was a teacher years ago, and I loved the idea of any group or individual visiting a school, whether musicians, a circus or a poet or playwright doing a reading. That was always very important and it does not happen frequently enough. I would explain that infrequency on the grounds that the curriculum is very crowded and places such an emphasis on examinations, points and results that we often forget the importance of standing and staring, as we say. I appreciate the opportunity to hear the witnesses' comments for that reason.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
The name, Smashing Times theatre company, comes from the suffragette period in the 1900s, when women were excluded from public buildings and institutions. The suffragettes engaged in a campaign of smashing the windows of public buildings in Ireland from which they were excluded. They went around throwing bricks through windows as a form of protest. We liked that idea. We are not literally smashing windows-----
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I like the word "yet".
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps we need to consider providing multi-annual funding instead of leaving that gap. It has happened in a few areas and we might consider it in this context. We might write to the Minister to see if we can do anything in this regard, because it is an issue. As a noted singer, perhaps Deputy Cummins can comment further.
Maurice Cummins (Fine Gael)
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I compliment the witnesses on their excellent presentation. I have been involved in the arts and theatre for many years. Theatre should transcend all barriers, and that is what the witnesses are working towards. How many are involved in the company? Is the same group of actors involved repeatedly or are people brought in from outside the group?
Funding is a problem everywhere. Our famous theatre company in Waterford, Red Kettle, went to the wall last year because of funding. Funding has always been a problem in the arts, and I am sure it always will. I commend Smashing Times theatre company on its work. It is important that it visit schools. Deputy Martin Ferris referred to the role of the State. I am sure the witnesses also take into consideration people from both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland who are intent on maintaining sectarian divisions. I wish them every success in future.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
We established a panel of professional drama facilitators after issuing an open invitation for applications. We try to draw from that panel for our facilitators. We issued a similar open call last year in regard to actors and directors and we auditioned people. It is important that actors working in our company are artists who also have an interest in and knowledge of social justice. We are open to new people joining. We are always interested in bringing new blood into the company but we have a core group and people join on an ongoing basis.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
The actors and facilitators with whom we work need to have skills additional to their performance skills because they engage in post-show discussions with audiences, who may ask about the process the actor follows in developing a piece. When we presented in Coleraine, for example, one young kid asked the actor playing a British soldier whether he was afraid to perform in Catholic areas. This kind of discussion is important because it allows us to speak about the process of acting. Speaking about the creative process can open the discussion to other issues.
Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for not being here for the witnesses' presentation. I was stuck in traffic. I wish them well. My colleague from Cavan-Monaghan referred to our Youthreach service. I am glad the witnesses know about it. He was right to say that we have three very good Youthreach centres which attract young people who have opted out of the education system. I support the view that the witnesses should continue to engage with such services. I live beside Ramor Theatre in Virginia, County Cavan, and the Livin' Dred theatre company, which is Padraic McIntyre's company. There is a great wealth of theatre in that area.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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If the witnesses send a letter to the clerk to the committee regarding specific funding, I hope we will be in a position to help. The multi-annual arrangement might be the road to follow. I got involved in the arts in the 1980s, when I was involved in musicals. It is amazing how standards have improved over the years. I do not think I would make it into a musical today. That applies across the country. I went to see "Wuthering Heights" in the Gate Theatre prior to Christmas. We secured the last two tickets. I also saw the "Walford Farce" in the Olympia Theatre last Sunday night, which attracted a full house. That is wonderful, but I would like to see it spread across the country. I commend the witnesses on their work in this regard.
Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I apologise for missing the witnesses' presentation because I was delayed coming here. I am very interested in theatre. I will review their presentation after the meeting and if I have any questions I will revert to them.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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The witnesses indicated that they have reached 4,000 young people on a cross-Border basis through the Memory Project. I ask them to elaborate on that. Did they reach these young people in schools or through workshops? What age groups did they deal with and was there any integration in schools? If we do not achieve integration we will not achieve future peace.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
We ran a series of workshops with schools and youth groups such as Youthreach. These took place in the majority of the southern Border counties and in Northern Ireland. Some of the schools are naturally integrated, with cross-community engagement in the groups with which we worked. We also organised a number of seminar days, which were very important. For example, in Donegal we brought a school from Derry/Londonderry to Letterkenny. We organised a similar event in Ballyshannon.
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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The theatre company is doing cross-Border work and has brought children from Derry to Letterkenny. Are they from the Nationalist community?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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They are from the Unionist community?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Has the company worked in the more sectarian parts of Belfast and other areas?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Has it been cross-community?
Ms Freda Manweiler:
We have worked on cross-community projects between the Shankill and the Falls. We have worked with women's groups from the Falls Women's Centre and the Shankill Women's Centre. We have worked across the community. We have also done work in Newtownards on a cross-community basis. We brought community members from all around Strangford Lough to work on a cross-community basis. Usually when we work in schools the students are aged 14 years and above. That is the age group on which we focus. Recently we worked in a school in Letterkenny.
There was an assumption that everybody in the class was Catholic until we started doing some work and two young girls told us they were Protestant. This information was not communicated within the class. We were in a position to enable the class to have some kind of discussion about the issues experienced by the young Protestant girls. Sometimes we are very focused on bringing two groups together, while at other times we may not know who is in a group. We have a cross-community group in place. Does that answer the Deputy's question?
Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Yes. My concern is with areas where there is greater sectarianism. Sectarian problems will not occur among children from Donegal and from the other side of the Border because sectarianism has been greatly reduced in Border areas, unlike in Belfast, particularly north Belfast.
Ms Freda Manweiler:
I am not sure to what extent I agree with that statement. A great deal of silence still exists in the Border counties and certain thoughts around sectarianism are very deeply suppressed. Orange halls are still being burned down and Protestant farmers attacked in Donegal. From my experience of working in those communities, there is still a degree of sectarianism and a glorification of the past, which needs to be addressed. That has been my experience on the ground. Perhaps Ms Moynihan wishes to add to that.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
I have worked to bring together groups from the Falls Road and Shankill Road by using theatre skills to explore issues. We work with all ages from 14 years upwards. People sometimes tell us we should work with younger groups. What is interesting is that we have found issues in all of the communities where we have worked. The issue of silence is still present. I recently worked with a young woman, an artist, from the Nationalist community who had some very interesting stories to tell as part of the work we do but did not want them made public because of fear. Fear is still present in all communities. We are finding that these issues are still live on the ground.
One of the interesting things about theatre is that it is an important process for creating a safe space in which people can work together and find a way to express what is happening in their lives. When we do theatre and drama we teach drama and theatre skills for performance and work with communities. However, there are many other benefits in personal and social development. We work with people to build confidence. We also believe there is still a need for single identity work in the area of confidence building around cultural and self-expression. This work is still needed alongside work to bring communities together. Work is needed in both areas.
I will paraphrase the words of Augusto Boal, a practitioner from Brazil who created Theatre of the Oppressed. He described theatre as a weapon which should be used by the people. In one way, what we are doing with theatre is enabling people to find ways to use the theatre process to express what is happening in their lives, particularly around the issues of silence and identity, but also all the other issues that still need to be addressed.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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That is interesting. I am sure the witnesses will agree that one of the most positive aspects of theatre recently was the Fleadh Cheoil in Derry, which brought the two communities together. This template, which could be used across Ireland, has not been highlighted sufficiently. Members of the joint committee met representatives of the various groups and traditions involved in the Fleadh Cheoil. It was extremely powerful and this positive message needs to get out. The Smashing Times theatre company is doing something similar on a smaller but wider scale. What obstacles does theatre face in the area of cross-Border accreditation? Is a cross-Border group needed to accredit the work done by theatre companies? What issues arise in this regard?
Ms Freda Manweiler:
The frameworks for accreditation are different in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland and Britain. The mapping is different. It would be easier to accredit the training programme we run if the frameworks were similar. We might not attract as many people to participate if the accreditation were to come from a Dublin based accreditation body. This is an issue, which also affects funding because certain funding will go to accrediting things under a Northern Ireland framework and certain funding will go for accreditation in the South. That is an issue.
Ms Mary Moynihan:
I also work as a lecturer in the BA in drama at Dublin Institute of Technology where I train young people in performance. Smashing Times theatre company set up a training course, the diploma in drama facilitation skills, which was initially funded by Special EU Programmes Body, SEUPB. The course brought together people from different communities for one year to train as facilitators in order that they could then carry on the work. We also offer a certificate in community drama. The diploma was the first course of its kind in Ireland and remains the only such course in place here. Funding should be provided for courses such as this, which can bring people from the Six Counties and other areas together. It is also important to find some way of supporting this type of accredited training.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I seek our guests' views on a personal issue. We have many parks and monuments to battles and other historical events. The Anglo-Irish Agreement has been in place for 30 years and the Good Friday Agreement will be 20 years old in three years. As an historic agreement, the latter should be commemorated, perhaps by naming a park or theatre after it. Do the witnesses have any views on that suggestion? A lady suggested to me about a year ago that a peace garden should be named after the Good Friday Agreement. It is a significant agreement and the focus of the work of this committee. Many good things have come out of it. Do our guests wish to comment?
Ms Freda Manweiler:
We have a little dream. We would love to have an arts centre in Ireland that would focus on using the arts for human rights and peace-building and have some way of capturing all the great work that is being done by arts organisations and the learning that has taken place as a result of the peace process on this island. We could be some kind of flagship for Europe in terms of how the arts are used in this way. European artists could be brought in to learn from us, although why should we confine ourselves to Europe? Why not the world?
Ms Mary Moynihan:
I fully support that idea and the concept of the artist engaging with wider society, including political leaders, to create links. It is fantastic that we have been asked to speak to the joint committee today as it shows an interest in the arts and how we can engage with developments in society, politically, socially and economically. This is very important. It is also vital to provide spaces which young people can use to engage with these issues. We must politicise - I use that word with a small "p" - our young people and get them engaged in making society a better place and creating a society that is about social justice and equality for all. It is important to provide spaces where young people can engage with these issues in a fun way.
Ms Olivia O'Hagan:
We need to have a structure that will help the sustainability of drama, bring community groups together and reach out to schools. This is an issue in society. I attended a programme and I am now engaging by promoting drama. From the work I have done, I see that this work could fall apart very quickly. A self-sustaining structure is required to keep it going and ensure it remains on the agenda because, as has been noted, it falls off the agenda.
Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Would any of my colleagues like to contribute further? I certainly believe that funding for the arts can be very ad hocsometimes. This has been a very enlightening meeting. I thank the witnesses for meeting us today. Our discussions have been very productive. The witnesses have certainly enlightened us. I would like to see further co-operation between this committee and the witnesses who are doing fantastic work which is very difficult to place a value on. I wish them every success in the future and thank them again for appearing before us today.