John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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To add to or bring this together, there is a resource issue within the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. There is also an issue in terms of the different agencies throughout the State in regard to how they account or how seriously they take their job as members of audit committees and so on. I am concerned by a number of examples of this. Tipperary Hostel was reported on here, but nothing constructive has come back from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, or any of the other Departments involved, in regard to that project. We do our work. We highlight the issues and in that case forwarded a note to the line Minister and the Department but got no real response in the letters we received.

We also have the example of the Waterford Institute of Technology, which was in the news again recently. There has been no clear cut ending to that examination. This lack of a conclusion creates significant doubt around the organisations concerned and their ability to deliver as they should. We received a report from Cork Institute of Technology and we constantly receive letters from the VEC, all complaining about the loose spending of taxpayers' money or governance issues. However, we have not received a reply from the Department yet, even though it is some months since the report was made available to it. We have had no response whatsoever. Again, this is a question of how serious the Departments are about taking on board the issues raised at this committee and doing something to stop them arising again.

The issue of time is also of significant concern, both to me and other committee members. Last week, we dealt with the harbours accounts. These date back over years and one of the buildings mentioned was going through a sale process for 21 years. Surely somebody on the audit committee or involved in that process should have brought that issue to the attention of someone more senior. In the context of new legislation etc., it appears that agencies do not acknowledge or do not step up to the plate in terms of their responsibilities. As a result, we see a massive loss of taxpayers' money to the State and an undermining of the sector in terms of how it is viewed within and without the Department.

We are all aware of the issues with the HSE. All of these issues were highlighted and brought to the attention of the Minister for Health and the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, but nothing has been done about them. There is little correction in the system. I believe the time has come for an audit of the various agencies, with a particular emphasis on their governance, how they view it and what steps they have taken, in line with the new legislation, to ensure they are at the edge of best practice. That is not happening currently. For as long as that does not happen and for as long as there are no consequences for these agencies, the system just trundles on and the Committee of Public Accounts will remain in business and be as busy as ever for the foreseeable future. That should not be the case.

I suggest there is a need for a special report into governance issues for every organisation responsible to the Comptroller and Auditor General or for every organisation that presents its books to his office for audit. Following that audit, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the political leadership within Departments can be informed of the position. Somebody must take a stand on this issue, because there is a massive loss of public moneys. It seems to me that everybody is quite happy for us to do our job here on a Thursday morning and then to turn a blind eye to the issues and walk away. With respect, the ball is in the court of the Comptroller and Auditor General as much as it is in ours. If it is a question of resources, this must be explained clearly to the Departments. Someone must cry "stop", say that this will not happen again and point out the consequences. This must be a policy issue, so that it is then for us to say -I am saying it now - there should be a consequence for every organisation that does not comply with the rules, just as happens in the private sector. Until this policy is part of the system, we will not change the culture of the Comptroller and Auditor General reporting here on a Thursday morning and then going back to his desk and treating everything as if nothing ever happened.