John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will note correspondence because we dealt with it earlier.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Can I ask a question or two about the correspondence? Would the Chairman prefer if I left it until another day?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will allow very short questions.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Yes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will quickly read through the list.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I wish to query a couple of items.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to correspondence from Mr. Derek Moran, Secretary General, Department of Finance, on transferring liabilities from local authorities to Irish Water. We have a note on the public moneys going to Irish Water in 2014 which we can examine once due diligence has been completed on the transfer. Last week we asked for clarification of the matter which we have now received. The clerk has also provided a note outlining the figures in the list of correspondence.

The next item of correspondence is dated 24 October and was received from Mr. Stiofán Ó Cualáin, Údarás na Gaeltachta and follows up a Committee of Public Accounts meeting. This correspondence is to be noted and published.

The next item is correspondence, dated 24 October 2014, from Mr. John Murphy, Secretary General, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, regarding a follow-up from a Committee of Public Accounts meeting with Shannon Development. This correspondence is to be noted and published. I have received further correspondence on the matter and I do not know whether other Members have received the same. It arrived late yesterday and this morning. We will circulate the correspondence. I ask the clerk to pull together the information and also to provide a cover note.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is good. I wish to mention one other item. I refer to the reply to the question regarding the liabilities incurred by the Exchequer due to the Irish aviation superannuation scheme. I am not sure if I have taken the right implications from the reply. It suggests that all liabilities, duties, etc. were transferred when Shannon Development became a commercial enterprise to the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. I am concerned that there is a major debate taking place on the IAS scheme and whether certain liabilities on the pension scheme was picked by the Department. At present the vast majority of the people covered by the scheme in terms of deferred pensions, whether they are active or retired, have a major controversy raging. People wonder whether this matter was dealt with prior to the commercialisation of Shannon Development for those employees who came under the scheme in that remit. I seek further clarification that the decision would be relevant to the current decision that is covered statutorily.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the clerk to follow up on that matter and get something in writing.

Clerk to the Committee:

Does the Deputy's query relate to Aer Lingus and the Dublin Airport Authority?

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The DAA and Aer Lingus, at the present time.

Clerk to the Committee:

That is fine. I will follow it up.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The umbilical cord seems to have been cut from Shannon Development but there are still the responsibilities and impairment of the defined pension fund in regard to the IAS.

Clerk to the Committee:

For the remainder.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Have any of those liabilities been picked up by the Department? Is there another category of worker who did not have their liabilities picked up who are now subject to the current system?

Clerk to the Committee:

The Deputy's query is about whether there was equal treatment of Shannon Development and the Dublin people.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Exactly.

Clerk to the Committee:

That is fine. I will follow it up.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Item No. 3A.4 is correspondence received from Mr. Neil Pakey, CEO, Shannon Commercial Enterprise Limited.

Clerk to the Committee:

On a related issue.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is the same issue again and we will provide a note on same.
No. 3B.1 is correspondence from Mr. Ray Mitchell, HSE, on medical card assessment.
No. 3B.2 is correspondence from Mr. Sean Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, regarding the Tank Field. We need more information on the project in terms of costs, ownership and the details of the lease. Mr. Ó Foghlú has said these are not matters for his Department. We need to know what this is all about so I suggest we ask him or whoever is responsible for those details. They are relevant to the correspondence we have received from numerous people.
No. 3B.3 is correspondence received from Mr. Brian Motherway, CEO, Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, regarding irregularities of claims on grant schemes. The correspondence is to be noted.
No. 3B.4 is correspondence, dated 24 October, received from Mr. Noel Waters, acting Secretary General, Department of Justice and Equality, regarding an update on Thornton Hall. Deputy Costello raised this matter.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Yes. I ask for further clarification on the matter because the update seems to reflect a very limited period. Thornton Hall was purchased in 2004-2005 but there is no mention of anything that happened in regard to the purchase price or the expenditure between 2005 and 2012. The update relates to minor works that took place subsequently but the big expenditure took place in the intervening years.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I suggest we seek clarification from the Department.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

He seems to have responded to a request for information on current cost, so it is a current period. Maybe there was something in the way the query was phrased.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I suggest we ask him to refer to the project per se.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

Yes.

Clerk to the Committee:

That is fine.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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No. 3B.5 is correspondence on the National Library of Ireland regarding issues raised in the accounts about fraud and studentships. The correspondence is to be noted and, I presume, published.

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes, we can publish it.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will examine this issue in the new year as part of our work programme.

No. 3B.6 is correspondence, dated 28 October 2014, received from Mr. John McCarthy, Secretary General, Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, regarding the waste collection market structure and permitting system. That is Deputy Costello again.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It looks like the Department is proposing positive developments going forward into 2015, which is welcome.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

I wish to mention that a report is being published today by my office on the transhipment of waste. It is the cross-border movement of waste and touches on some of the same kinds of issues, including an office that is based in Dublin City Council to manage the matter from a national perspective.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Can the report be circulated to the committee?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

It is being published around now and is being circulated.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We can discuss Poolbeg under that heading as well? There is a specific figure in regard to this matter. We can bring that in as the topic is all to do with waste.

Nos. 3C.1 and 3C.2 relate to today’s meeting, the opening statement and so forth.

Nos. 4.1 to 4.8, inclusive, are the various statements of accounts received since 23 October 2014. We will examine the local government fund as part of the examination of the Vote of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government. The other accounts are noted. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item for discussion is the work programme. Due to the discussion we had at the opening of the meeting, I ask the clerk to review the various commitments we made to members in terms of inviting witnesses, topics and so on. I request that we adjust the work programme to include those commitments and, if necessary, we can meet for a second day during the week just to clear it between now and Christmas. Members have asked for different topics to be discussed. Therefore, I suggest we audit the topics and reflect that information forward in the work programme.

In terms of the special report on governance------

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

On audit committees.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we will ask officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to attend. We can discuss procurement as a separate topic and clear the agenda. The clerk will bring forward the work programme when we resume. We will change or adjust the current work programme to take in all of the different issues that were raised by members.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Have the DSPCA and the ISPCA been included in the work programme?

Clerk to the Committee:

We have had some correspondence from the ISPCA on tendering. My understanding is that a lot of it is through the local authorities. They are not ours per se. They are a local authority tender given to these groups. I will check if there is any money going from say, the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. I do not think so but I will come back to the Deputy on it.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is it possible to have a general discussion on procurement and include that in it? I am sure Mr. Watt and the Department would-----

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes. I think that anything that came in we should forward to the Department and to the procurement service.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That might be the case for the ISPCA. With the DSPCA, there were issues of how public funding was spent. There were questions around various legislative matters, people resigning, people taking others to court and all of that.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can we ask the clerk to look at that?

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Material was presented to us on that and on the expenditure of public funding. As well as tendering, there would be another element.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will ask the clerk to the committee to bring it forward in the context of our consideration of the work programme.

There were a number of reports that we did not close off on. Could we list those to finish our work between now and Christmas?

Is the agenda for the meeting on Thursday, 20 November, agreed, when we will deal with the appropriation accounts for the Courts Service, Vote 22?

Clerk to the Committee:

We will be meeting next week as well on legal matters discussed.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will have a meeting next week on the legal matters discussed. That is all agreed.