Jillian van Turnhout (Independent)
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I welcome the members of the delegation and thank them for their work they do in their respective roles. In particular, I thank Dr. Buckley because her national review panel report has proved invaluable to this committee. In terms of the child care law reporting project, when the reports come out we learn from them each year. For us it is good to have the evidence which means we understand more and can shape our own thinking. For example, we need to have a court dedicated to family but not solely. Therefore, it is importance for us to listen and hear information.
It was interesting for me to hear about the work of guardian ad litemcases which is where I shall start. Last week when Dr. Coulter launched the report she said that some courts appointed guardian ad litemcases but only 20% of the time. Also, in these cases there was no evidence of the judge speaking directly to the child. Two years ago we voted on a children's amendment which is still before the Supreme Court awaiting adjudication. At that time we clearly said that children should have a voice in issues that affect them. All too often I have heard about cases of where the child is the last person to be spoken to, yet we have heard from a series of Ministers that legal fees are a huge and significant issue. I welcome the views of the delegation because we keep hearing that the legal fees are the problem. I have no doubt there is a duplication in the payment of legal fees. Can the delegation advise when such fees are appropriate? I have seen cases where a guardian ad litemis appointed to a child but not in other cases. Dr. Coulter told us in her report on the child care law reporting project that where one lives is a factor, which means it is a geographical lottery. What are we doing about the matter?
Turning to the issue of early intervention, I understand Dr. Buckley's concerns that we might have a rise in the number of reports due to the Children First legislation. One side of me says that is something is happening we need to know. If we knew there was a serious heart issue or Ebola virus scare we would not say to people to stay at home and wait until we have services in place. Therefore, we must equip the services. I have listened to what was said and agree that we do not have enough social workers. Equally, we cannot put all the investment into such recruitment but not have the services. That is why I pursued the question about the HSE with the Minister for Health ten days ago and emphasised to him it was all of the HSE that needs to be taken into consideration. He took on board what I said but we must wait and see whether something happens.
This committee must push further the idea that child protection is not just an issue for the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and the Child and Family Agency. Child protection is part of all the different Departments where children have a role. The Department of Education and Skills and the Department of Health play the primary strong roles. The committee needs to push that understanding of child protection.
I raised the role of social workers in the Seanad a short while ago with the Minister for Health. I have heard there is a difficulty accessing other services in the health services or agency. Ms O'Callaghan clearly told us about the psychological assessments and so on. People try to access these services. I have been given the example of the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services, which takes a child into care. When people try to access CAMHS the attitude is almost that a person can pay privately because CAMHS works in the community and cannot be accessed. This is one State body speaking to another. Social workers regularly complain to me that when they try to access CAMHS they are told the child is their responsibility rather than the State services. Social workers also tell me there is a problem accessing social services for parents. Social workers are told they do not understand, yet Dr. Coulter's report to us today mentioned the lack of services in terms of addiction, mental health issues and physical health issues. That proves there is clearly a role for other services.
I would like to ask about ethnic minorities and their vulnerability, which was mentioned. I want to understand the issue more. I think I understand the problem but want to be absolutely sure we understand the issue. I am very pleased the term "Traveller" has been included as an ethnic minority, which is what I believe is correct. How do we assist Travellers?
Direct provision is another issue. To be clear, children are distinguished as either being in the care of the State or cared for by the State. Children in direct provision are being cared for by the State so are not in the care of the State. Therefore, they cannot be inspected by HIQA, while they will say somebody has been seconded from the HSE into the Reception and Integration Agency to look after all those concerns. If I was in a direct provision centre and was told somebody from the Department of Justice and Equality had been seconded to the agency it would mean nothing to me. As a result, I would not report a concern. I am fearful there is a lot more happening in direct provision centres than we realise and more than we could imagine. If I was in a centre I do not know if I would have the courage to report something. Does anyone know what happens in these centres? How can we ensure people get the interventions and supports they seek?
Those are all my questions because I want to leave space for my colleagues. I have taken note of the Child Care Act amendments that have been suggested and we will take them on board.