John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I am concerned about the legal division in your Department. I have encountered several cases. They are not relevant to this morning's meeting but to another meeting. I have met a considerable number of people who have expressed reservations about the manner in which the Department takes legal action. In fact, Judge Reynolds made a statement in a particular case, although we will not go into it this morning. It seem there are serious question marks over the costs involved in all of this. Therefore, I wonder about the whole process within the Department, leading the Department to take action against an individual, even though it is in the interests of the taxpayer. Question marks have arisen in these cases because the Department has been wrong.

The Department must be spending a fortune on trying to put together leases that were never in place. I question the whole approach of the Department in respect of the legal process and I am not on my own on the matter. I have referred to Judge Reynolds already and there are other cases in which I have set about to meet the individuals concerned to get an understanding. The stories I have heard, Mr. Moran, are horrific. This shambles before us this morning is explained away, not by you, but explained away generally, by virtue of the fact that certain sections within Departments moved from one place to another, staff moved or changed and that the corporate knowledge needed to deal with the issues and the Department's understanding of the matters are suspect in terms of the continuation. The only thing we can rely on is the Comptroller and Auditor General's office. Mr. Kelly from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has acknowledged that there is an anomaly in the 1968 Act.

You said this morning that you had a very effective audit system, but I am not inclined to agree with you and I will tell you why. It has taken an extraordinary length of time to deal with these issues. It is not small money. This is not lose change we are dealing with; it is not a matter of nickels and dimes. There is a litany of figures: €1.2 million, €2 million, €5 million and the write-off or bad debt provision of €3 million. Car parks that were to be developed were not developed. Expectations from car parking fees were never realised. It is not me saying this; the Comptroller and Auditor General has said it. I have examined the various notes on the matter and it seems the Department was seriously remiss. It is incredible. The position on leases and the debt is shocking. I imagine anyone reading the report prepared not by us, but by the Comptroller and Auditor General, would have to agree.

I asked a question of the Department on the cost of legal fees. I was told they were borne by the Chief State Solicitor's office and that it would be acting on behalf of the Department. Now, I am told that there is a legal division in the Department and that a solicitor is employed there. I am unsure what are the other qualifications. I will come back to this in the context of the special investigation; it is not for this morning.

Will you outline your response in writing in respect of all of this? You say that you took various actions, that you were proactive and that you dealt with it. Will you give us a list of the dates and times of the actions and their nature? Please give us a list of the debtors and creditors as well. I am sure that is okay. Is it not?