Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

-----or at least there was over-capacity; therefore, a crèche could have been catering for 20 children when it could have been catering for 30 and when the expectation when it was built was that it would cater for 30. The second payment is ongoing and is made where a parent says their child will attend a crèche.

This is where a parent says my child will attend this crèche and there are staffing, food, cleaning and heating costs. This is what the recurrent payments are underpinning.