Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the delegates. The purpose of the meeting is to meet representatives of Concern to discuss the ongoing crisis in Syria. Obviously, the position is changing day by day and it will be useful to have a discussion with Concern which I understand has been working inside Syria since May 2013. I note that it is almost a year to the day since members started to discuss the situation in Syria with representatives of Concern. At the time, the position in the country had deteriorated, given the growth of extremism and the threat posed by ISIS and other groups. Although the United Nations has passed resolutions, recent reports on their implementation set out clearly that the fundamental obstacles to the provision of humanitarian assistance remain in place across Syria and that the parties to the conflict remain in breach of international law. As members will have seen on their televisions screens nightly, the situation in Kobani is particularly worrying. Kobani is a city situated just 3 km inside the Syrian-Turkish border and already we have seen ISIS taking over public buildings there. Obviously, the major worry in this regard is that there could be another massacre, accompanied by offences such as rape and so on within the region. I note that 200,000 Syrian Kurds have moved across the border with Turkey and that the situation at the border is extremely difficult.

It is particularly difficult for the Turkish authorities, given the history of the region. Humanitarian relief is a critical component of the international response, with the mass displacement of citizens. We saw this for ourselves last year when we visited Jordan and the refugee camps on the Syrian border. The treatment of citizens by ISIS and other terrorist groups in the region is deplorable.
Ireland has made a very significant contribution to the ongoing work to alleviate the suffering of the Syrian people, having already committed more than €29 million in humanitarian assistance in response to the crisis. The committee is looking forward to hearing from Concern today about its efforts to alleviate the suffering of the people of Syria. We met some Syrian refugees when we were in Jordan and spoke to them through translators. The stories we heard were harrowing and we have heard many more such stories since through the media, including about how ISIS is treating people.
Before we begin, I ask members, witnesses and those in the Visitors Gallery to turn off their mobile phones for the duration of the meeting as they cause interference with the recording equipment, even when left in silent mode. This is particularly important because the meeting is being broadcast live on the Oireachtas television channel.
I remind Members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.
I welcome the representatives of Concern, Ms Anne O'Mahony, director of international programmes; Ms Brid Kennedy, regional director for Asia and the Middle East, and Mr. Peter Doyle. We will first hear the opening presentation and then have a question and answer session.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

I thank committee members for inviting us to brief them on the situation in Syria. I will begin by quoting Navi Pillay who said, "The killers, destroyers and torturers in Syria have been empowered and emboldened by international paralysis." As the Chairman said, we were here one year ago and the situation has deteriorated considerably since. There are now over 3 million refugees from Syria who have fled to neighbouring countries, while almost 7 million people have been displaced within Syria. Of the 3 million who have become refugees, four out of every five are women and children. These numbers hide the reality of the enormous human tragedy which has unfolded in the past four years. We hear of untold violence and continuous suffering, so much so that it almost numbs our sensibilities and we do not really hear it anymore.

We are appearing before the committee not just to brief members on our programmes but also to request that Ireland use its significant influence to bring urgent diplomatic and political pressure to bear in dealing with the situation in Syria. We are also meeting the committee days before budget 2015 is announced. I thank the committee for its support for and scrutiny of the Irish Aid budget which has enabled Concern to do the kind of work I will describe. We work in an increasingly fraught environment, with simultaneous emergencies and restrictions on the work of humanitarian agencies. Political leadership which supports overseas aid and respects the international commitments we have made, particularly our commitment to spend 0.7% of GDP on overseas aid, is crucial. Budget 2015 will be the first budget in many years when we can demonstrate our genuine intention to get back on track towards the 0.7% target. I urge the committee to continue in its efforts to protect and promote Ireland's development and humanitarian work.

Concern is working in Syria, Lebanon and Turkey in response to the Syrian crisis, providing shelter, non-food items, water, sanitation and hygiene support, as well as education services and protection for those affected by the conflict. The situation has become increasingly complex with the proliferation of armed groups, the rise of ISIS and military intervention by the western coalition in Syria and Iraq, with a subsequent threat to the humanitarian space. It is not possible to overstate the level of threat in the region and how it affects our decisions on a daily basis. The humanitarian needs are, however, increasing owing to the escalating military operations, but the level of funding is actually falling. The 2014 appeal for Syria is only 46% funded. Winter is approaching and vulnerable individuals will struggle in the freezing conditions. Shelter is inadequate and families who once lived in three bedroom, semi-detached houses in suburban Damascus will soon be struggling to survive under plastic sheeting in sub-zero temperatures. The Chairman mentioned that the committee had met some families on its visit to Jordan. I met families last year in Lebanon who had to get up every morning to shake the snow off the plastic roofs of their accommodation. I had many layers of clothing on me, yet I was shivering. These people are living under plastic, having come from backgrounds similar to our own. They once had good housing and living conditions, but they are now living in dire poverty. They are facing into another winter in the same situation and on it goes.

The neighbouring countries of Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan have been really generous in accepting Syrian refugees. However, they are beginning to buckle under the immense pressure. Lebanon, for example, is one eighth of the size of Ireland. It is about the same size as counties Clare and Cork combined, but it is hosting over 1 million refugees. Ireland has a population of over 4.5 million; the population of Lebanon is similar. How would we respond if 1 million refugees arrived on our doorstep and started to use our facilities, including our health care, education and social welfare systems? That would place an enormous burden on us, but we are much better off than a country like Lebanon.

As a result of the disproportionate burden being placed on neighbouring countries due to the Syrian conflict, tensions are increasing between Syrian refugees and host communities. Recently these tensions have escalated and reports of attacks on Syrian refugees, forced evictions, raids and the destruction of refugee property are increasing. Governments are becoming more restrictive of refugee movements, with new policies aimed at defining more strictly who qualifies as a refugee and tightening the entry criteria for Syrians. Reports from our country offices in Lebanon detail that the Lebanese border has been closed and while some better-off Syrians are being allowed access to transit points, poorer people are being stopped and refused access without humanitarian selection criteria being in place. As with all such situations, it is the poor who suffer the most. They are the ones with no voice and they are being blocked at every turn.

Ireland resettled 90 Syrian refugees in 2014, as well as initiating the Syrian humanitarian admissions programme. While both initiatives are welcome, these efforts pale in comparison to the scale and gravity of the displacement problem. The European Union has largely failed to take responsibility in shouldering its portion of the burden of the refugee crisis. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees, António Guterres, has repeatedly urged EU member states to open their doors to Syrian refugees and noted in January this year that Turkey had received ten times the number of Syrian refugees received by all EU member states combined. That is a tribute to it and its openness and a poor reflection on us.

Women and girls, as in all of these situations, have been incapacitated disproportionately by the crisis in Syria. Approximately 27% of the female refugee population are under 18 years. Sexual violence and the harassment of Syrian women have become endemic, including the use by ISIS of sex slaves.

Early and forced marriage, harmful traditional practices, lack of access to educational opportunities, family separation and an inability to access basic social services are pervasive in the lives of Syrian women in the region.

The ability of the United Nations and aid agencies to protect the most vulnerable, namely, women, children, people with disabilities and the elderly, has been severely compromised. Post-traumatic stress disorder and a lack of psychosocial support are likely to affect an entire generation of Syrian children who will be responsible for rebuilding their country. The traumas they face will affect their abilities.

The UN independent international commission of inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic unequivocally stated influential states had turned away from the difficult task of finding a political solution. Some states continue to deliver shipments of arms, artillery and aircraft, or contribute logistical and strategic assistance to the Government of Syria. Other states, organisations and individuals support armed groups with weapons and funding. The weapons they transfer to the warring parties in Syria are used for war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of human rights. Recent events in Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq where violence engaged in by ISIS and tensions between refugees and host communities have spiralled emphasises the urgency of finding a political settlement to the war. If the current situation continues, we face a regional collapse, with global consequences and an associated surge in conflict, displacement, poverty and devastation. It is vital that all avenues to reinstate the Geneva talks be explored. While Ireland was not a participant in the last round of talks, our political and diplomatic relations can and should be used to leverage support for the talks as a framework for finding a political solution.

A long-term strategy forms an essential part of any process which seeks to address the current situation. As the UN Security Council recognised in Resolutions 2139 and 2165, the protection of civilians is pivotal, while victims of violations deserve effective redress. We very much welcomed the statement by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Charles Flanagan, at the 69th session of the UN General Assembly in September on the situation in Syria. The Minister noted Ireland’s support for a political solution based on the principles of the 2012 Geneva communiqué; called for the referral of the situation to the International Criminal Court; and urged all parties to comply with the Security Council resolutions which supported increased humanitarian access and relief operations in Syria. However, statements at the UN General Assembly are not enough. As we approach United Nations International Human Rights Day on 10 December, we have an opportunity to demonstrate Ireland’s strengthened leadership on the Syrian crisis. We urge that consideration be given to outlining the concrete diplomatic and political actions which Ireland will take to support a viable political solution to end the conflict. We set out a series of recommendations that would frame a renewed strategy and would welcome the thoughts of committee members on specific actions which could be taken.

We recommend promoting the mandate of the UN special envoy to Syria to reinstate the Geneva talks and support all efforts to bring influential parties to the table, including Iran and Israel which have been excluded so far. Efforts to find a durable political and diplomatic end to the conflict must be intensified as a matter of urgency and Ireland must use its voice to bolster this process. We also recommend supporting and sustaining funding for humanitarian operations through the Irish overseas development aid budget without jeopardising our progress on the millennium development goals; promoting increased access for people affected by the conflict in all areas; and facilitating the expansion of humanitarian relief operations by calling for adherence to the Security Council's resolutions.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade should use his position at the EU Foreign Affairs Council to call for Council conclusions on the protection of civilians in Syria. Such conclusions should be accompanied by a framework for responding to the upsurge in humanitarian needs resulting from military intervention and supported by a number of EU member states.

We call for support for countries in the region which disproportionately shoulder the burden of the Syrian crisis, particularly Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey, through increased humanitarian and political support.

Our membership of the UN Human Rights Council should be used to call for a special session on the Syrian conflict. Ireland must continue to condemn the war crimes perpetrated by all parties to the conflict, including murder, the targeting of civilians, torture, rape and sexual violence, the recruitment and use of children in hostilities and the use of illegal chemical weapons.

It is fairly common knowledge at this stage that Ireland hopes to win a seat on the UN Security Council by 2020. This is all part of the leadership Ireland can show in the international arena in dealing with this issue.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Will Ms O'Mahony update the committee on Concern's activities in Syria and the work it does there?

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

I will ask Ms Kennedy will do so.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

We work in the Akkar region in northern Lebanon where we provide shelter in informal settlements and collective centres. These collective centres can be in buildings which were originally intended to be chicken farms but which have been converted. They provide people with shelter, a sense of physical protection and a home. Some of the informal settlements are just basic good quality tents. We also provide water and sanitation for the population. In addition, we provide education services. As Ms O'Mahony mentioned in her presentation, the children are the future. Syria had a 99% education achievement rate before the war. Now millions of children are at risk of not receiving an education. If we are to offer hope in the future, we must address the issue of education, as we do through supporting children informally and in trying to get them into the Lebanese school system.

We are also engaged in protection work with the support of Irish Aid. We support men and women working together in the refugee population and the host community. As mentioned in the presentation, there is much tension between host communitys and the refugee population. We engage with men and women to examine the traditional issues and the new issues they face to help to break down some of the barriers and stigma encountered which we hope in itself will contribute to mitigating more problems and contributing to peace in communities.

We have been registered in Turkey since August 2013 and work very closely with the Turkish authorities which are very co-operative in supporting the Syrian population. Recently we have focused on water distribution and non-food item distribution to recent influxes of the Syrian population. We are examining conducting a large-scale education programme, provided funding comes through.

Since last year we have been supporting the provision of clean water in Syria. People like us were used to a good standard of housing and piped water systems. However, the piped water system has been cut off. When we made our assessment, the number one priority was to have piped water systems into houses. This ensures a clean water supply and reduces the risk of attack when people go to fetch water from other sources. This has been working very effectively.

We also promote good hygiene. Syria had almost been polio free, but, unfortunately, there was an outbreak last year. The local authorities had the sandfly population under control. Sandflies spread leishmaniasis which causes terrible skin problems. The incidence of this decease increased hugely last year. However, a defogging system controls the sandfly population and minimises the risk of contracting leishmaniasis.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Thank you, Ms O'Mahony and Ms Kennedy. I will now take questions from members, beginning with Deputy Brendan Smith and Senator David Norris.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms O'Mahony and Ms Kennedy for their presentation. The scene they have outlined is very frightening and has worsened considerably since they last attended a meeting of the committee almost one year ago. Until June this year, refugees from Syria who were fleeing from ISIS were being accommodated in Iraq, but that country is now in serious difficulty. The delegates referred to the increasing tensions between Syrian refugees and host communities in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan. It is important to acknowledge the pressures on the host countries and recognise what they have done and continue to do to assist persons fleeing Syria.

The activities of ISIS which are receiving a great deal of media coverage are a source of serious concern to the international community. My understanding is that the organisation now controls large parts of both Syria and Iraq, with its offensive being ramped up in recent days. The town of Kobani, in particular, has been very much in the media spotlight. Am I correct in saying that if ISIS succeeds in capturing Kobani, it will have established a direct link between its position in the Syrian province of Aleppo and its stronghold at Raqqa? It is very worrying to contemplate it having full control of a long stretch of the Turkish-Syrian border.

The problems in the region are multiplying and, as the delegates observed, the international community has not responded with the urgency needed. The pledging conference took place almost one year ago amid huge international attention, with a series of prominent political leaders pledging very substantial donations and giving other commitments. Will the delegates indicate to what degree these commitments have been honoured and what they amount to in monetary terms?

The delegates have noted that 3 million refugees have left Syria and that 7 million people are internally displaced. If, as I understand it, the population of Syria was just less than 23 million one year ago, almost 50% of its people have either had to flee their homeland or are displaced internally. These statistics paint a very grave picture, to which, unfortunately, the international community has not responded.

I am sure colleagues will be in agreement with me that the committee would not have any difficulty in supporting the proposals the delegates have brought forward and presenting them to the Minister. Are they confident these proposals will be supported by other non-governmental organisations which are doing similar and very valuable work in these countries?

David Norris (Independent)
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I welcome the delegation from Concern. I am a long-time admirer and supporter of the work it does. I note the indication on page 2 of the presentation that the 2014 appeal was only 46% funded. Can the countries which make up the other 54% be named and shamed? Can it be made public that their leaders have gone in front of the television cameras, as they do in every crisis, promising to give X million dollars but have failed to deliver? Naming and shaming seems to be a good idea.

The West has adopted a very pragmatic approach to Syria and put up with the barbarous activities of the Assad regime for a very long time. I recall when human rights lawyers were being arrested and tortured and the West did absolutely nothing about it. ISIS's behaviour is certainly reprehensible, horrible and appalling and must be condemned. Recording and broadcasting the beheading of people are particularly barbarous because of the sensitivities and feelings of the families and the viewers who see this type of material. On the other hand, one cannot but remember the tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of civilians who were murdered in Iraq by the West by way of its saturation bombing campaigns, the use of drone aircraft and other abuses. What has happened to the standards of the West? Where a group of 25 people is blasted by a drone, that group might perhaps include one person who may be associated with some offshoot of al-Qaeda, but it also will include 24 civilians, including, in many cases, children. We have all heard the reports of wedding parties being wiped out and so on. Where is the justice for the people concerned? Admittedly, one does not see their dismemberment on television, but surely to God they are human beings also. One cannot kick a wasp's nest and then express surprise if one is stung. That is what the West has repeatedly done, however, and it has treated the populations of Muslim countries with contempt.

I disagree slightly with Ms O'Mahony's view that we should reproach ourselves for having taken in so few refugees in comparison with Turkey. As a Muslim country and a direct neighbour of Syria, one would expect Turkey to take a larger number. I agree that we should be accepting more refugees, but we should not beat ourselves over the head about it.

Peshmerga troops seem to be the most effective indigenous fighters and the most appropriate people to take on ISIS. However, they are being hampered by the Turkish authorities because they are seen as an offshoot of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, PKK, which is denominated, at the insistence of the Americans, as a terrorist group by the European Union. We like to blather about 2016 and all the rest of it in this country, yet we go along with the denomination of the PKK and Peshmerga as terrorist organisations when, fundamentally, they are freedom fighters. We then change our position and expect them to fight for us, without providing them with arms. Surely, if we want them to fight, we should give them the materials with which to do so. This issue is particularly acute in the town of Kobani where the Turkish authorities are preventing Peshmerga troops from returning.

I will end on a positive note with a question about the control of sand flies. Is Concern involved in replacing the Syrian Government with its programme for attacking sand flies? This would be immensely practical.

I am sure my colleagues will join me in endorsing the recommendations the delegates have presented. Perhaps we might formally pass them today. I will continue to fight for the restoration of the 0.7% allocation for overseas development aid. As I have pointed out repeatedly, because it is a percentage allocation, the actual sum will reduce as our gross national product reduces. We are simply paying a proportion of available resources. We can afford to do so and should do it.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I invite the delegates to respond before I invite other members to speak.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

I thank members for their questions and comments. Senator David Norris's last question is probably the easiest to respond to; he asked whether Concern was replacing the Government of Syria. What we are doing is supporting the local council, which would be akin to Dublin County Council and has responsibility for these matters.

David Norris (Independent)
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What form does the support take? Is it money or personnel?

Ms Brid Kennedy:

We support it with money from Irish Aid and the European Community Humanitarian Office, ECHO.

David Norris (Independent)
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Excellent.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

It involves supporting people by supplying them with defogging machines which they know how to operate.

David Norris (Independent)
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Splendid.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

That was the easy question.

The Senator also asked about the standards of the West. It is in the context of this question that we are strongly calling for political action to end the war. It is a conflict that started off with the minutiae of schoolchildren's graffiti on a wall before escalating to potentially a global conflict. Unless we do something urgently to try to control and end the war, we are not attending to our own or anybody else's standards.

It will also lead to more human suffering in Syria, its neighbouring countries and potentially in many other countries. Our strong request is to try to get support at every level - globally, at European level and at national level - to try to end the political crisis.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

To return to the question about arming the Peshmerga, I have lived and worked through many conflicts around the world and the issue of arming the underdog or arming somebody always arises. We rarely look at what happens when the various protagonists are armed and what ultimately happens with the arms. Often we find, certainly in poorer situations, people get the arms with the best of intentions, but they need to feed their families so they sell the arms to another person. The arms we might intend to be supplied in one direction can end up in the hands of the enemy. A supply of arms is not a solution to the conflict. Getting people around the table, getting the talks back on track and getting people to seek longer-term solutions is a much better approach than sending in more guns that will only be used for more killing, death and destruction.

David Norris (Independent)
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I wish the witnesses joy with their peace conference with ISIS.

Mr. Peter Doyle:

On that point, the Senator mentioned the situation in Kobani. We are responding to that crisis. We have a team in southern Turkey and it is assisting refugees who are crossing over from Kobani with sanitation and some household items, hygiene kits and so forth.

Deputy Smith mentioned the host communities. It is a huge strain, particularly on the Lebanon. When one considers the size of Lebanon compared to Ireland and the number of people living there, the refugee population has increased the population by 20% to 25%, which has put a huge strain on the resources and infrastructure of that country. It is one of the reasons that Concern, along with other humanitarian actors, is focusing its strategy on assisting not just refugees, but also the Lebanese host population. For example, we are developing infrastructure for water, sanitation and managing waste. All of these things are benefiting both the Lebanese population and the refugee population. We also have some activities to reduce tensions and mitigate conflict between both populations.

I can confirm that effectively we are talking about half of the population of Syria being displaced, either internally or externally. Most of them are displaced internally and there are approximately 3 million displaced to other countries.

There was also a question about whether our positions are shared by other organisations and NGOs. In Lebanon in particular, but also in Turkey, Concern participates in various co-ordination mechanisms, for example, the Lebanon Humanitarian INGO Forum which comprises a number of international NGOs, and we have developed certain positions, some of which we have mentioned here today. In many cases these are shared positions with many different organisations.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I presume Concern has already put the proposals it is putting forward to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Have the witnesses discussed them yet at official level with the Department?

Ms Brid Kennedy:

No, we have not.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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The proposals are therefore not in the system yet. Presumably, the witnesses will put them before the Department.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

We will.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

This is where we would welcome the committee's guidance. We are here today for two reasons, to outline what we would like to see done and to get the committee's input in terms of how we can progress it forward. The committee members know the internal workings of the system and we are outsiders coming forward with a view of what needs to be done. This is where we would welcome the committee's input regarding the steps we and the committee together must take to try and move the agenda forward.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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If I may make a suggestion, the witnesses should write directly to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Charles Flanagan, and enclose their recommendations. Personally, I would be glad if the committee supported the recommendations and communicated directly with the Minister, Deputy Flanagan.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is something we will deal with after we hear the presentations and the questions today. I see no problem with the recommendations and it is something on which we can make representations to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. In addition, the Minister will be appearing before the committee in the coming weeks and those issues can be raised directly with him before the committee meeting. Obviously, the Syrian crisis will dominate the meeting when he appears before the committee and we can refer to Concern's recommendations in that context. However, we can deal with that after we finish our questions.

I call Deputy Mitchell.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the delegation for its presentation. I agree about the destabilising effect this is likely to have. Apart from being a huge humanitarian crisis and a disaster for the people of Iraq and Syria, it is destabilising for the West as well. Even the International Monetary Fund, IMF, figures this morning specifically refer to the effect it is likely to have on growth throughout the world, which of course will have an effect on those who depend on aid and would hope to get aid from us.

I watched an episode of "Reeling in the Years" earlier this week and it showed footage from the first Iraq war. It was quite horrendous but now, nearly 25 years later, I am sure they would almost wish to have Saddam Hussein back as things have been so terrible for them. Now we see what is happening in Syria. I agree about a political solution, and the Minister has said the same, but the problem is with whom one can have a solution. It is Hobson's choice on the ground.

The bombing is not working. Military people who know about these matters say that one can stop them with bombs but one cannot secure the area unless one puts people in on the ground. That was done in Iraq but 25 years later it has not worked. On one side is Bashar al-Assad, who we thought was a monster. We had great hopes for the Arab Spring rising but now we are bombing the very people we thought were going to deliver gender equality and the like. Knowing what to do is a huge political difficulty for the West, even with regard to small matters. Obviously the humanitarian crisis is huge and needs money. However, when there is limited money does one divert money from the millennium development goals, MDG, programmes or what does one do? The world is facing a huge crisis due to the demands coming from everywhere, not just the Middle East, and also the worries about the conflict between the Ukraine and Russia.

On a point of detail, I am delighted that the witnesses recognised the vulnerability of the women and girls. When they say the crisis in Syria is causing this, is the problem in Syria or is it in the refugee camps in Turkey as well?

Ms Brid Kennedy:

It is all over.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Is there anything Concern can do to make women and girls a priority? What is happening to them is appalling. These were people living in three-bedroom semi-detached houses only a few months ago and they now find themselves being married off in appalling circumstances and subjected to FMG and so forth by people they thought would liberate them.

Obviously we agree that a political solution is where our efforts must be directed. The Minister has already made that point and I am sure the committee members will speak to the Minister about that. I thank the witnesses for their work and for briefing us today.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The witnesses tried to describe what is happening but there are times when language can fail to convey the horror and reality of that. This is one example. We do not have any concept of or feeling for what people must be going through in Syria. Only for ISIS, Syria would still be off the main agenda because the conflict has been ongoing there for so long. The ISIS crisis has, in a sense, brought Syria back onto the agenda. I cannot help thinking that the issues in Palestine continue to be replaced as a further crisis happens with Syria.

My other thoughts are about Libya where the exact same things are happening, but they have not come into the public arena in the same way as what is happening in Syria. To put it mildly, it is very gloomy and there are concerns in this respect . Our overseas development aid, ODA, allocation is moving further and further away from the 0.7% target. It now stands at under 0.4%. I repeat a point I made last week when we had representatives here speaking about the ebola crisis, namely, that we cannot divert money already committed to projects that are extremely badly needed to tackle a new crisis. We must find other funds to tackle the new crisis.

Reference was made to co-ordination. Is there a person with overall responsibility for co-ordinating all of the work being done in these areas? The last thing we need is an overlap because the needs are so great. I have met people who were involved in promoting a concept, with which Irish Aid agreed, that of the Jasmine Tent project, which was designed to provide a safe place for women. I have not heard recently from those involved as to whether the project is moving forward.

On the issue of refugees, we have resettled 90. I wonder how they were chosen? Do the delegates believe, as some of us do, that Ireland could play a stronger role in taking in some more refugees, even if only on a temporary basis, because I am sure everybody will want to return to his or her country of origin at some stage?

I thank the delegates for their input.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

I will take, first, the question on the vulnerability of women and children and if there is anything we can do to improve their position. It is a key focus of concern in all pf the work we do but especially in the regional response. The number one priority is the provision of shelter. In physically providing a shelter it is a physical place for a woman to stay. I was in Lebanon and Turkey in July. I met a women in Lebanon who was in one of the collective centres to which I referred. She told me that she had lost 23 family members in one day owing to shelling and that she had only two distant relatives with her. Her vulnerability was massive. We asked how we could help her and she said just by providing a safe space for her where she could be with others and also though the protection programme Irish Aid was funding. It allows people like her and many other women - girls and boys also - a space in which to express their issues and also what they would like to see happen in supporting them. Also, it helps to work with men and older male youth to get them to talk about these issues. Sometimes many of these issues women face are not spoken about. By getting people to speak about them and having opinions and feelings heard, something can be done about them. That is a crucial aspect.

In the education programme we focus strongly on boys and girls. Again, we bring out these protection issues within the programme and all other aspects of our work. We constantly bring up the issue of safety and try to address issues of women's rights. We refer them to the local authorities and services that address issues and problems women encounter as a result of rape or other such violations. We are doing a good deal of work in that area.

The Deputy mentioned that language could not describe what was happening. It cannot describe the suffering of many refugees and people inside Syria. The co-ordination of all the work being done in response is being managed at different levels. In Lebanon there is a co-ordination group in the northern region where the UN bodies and non-governmental organisations, NGOs, are working. There is also a national level co-ordination mechanism in Beirut. In Turkey there is a co-ordination mechanism between the OCHA and the NGOs and there is also a regional co-ordination mechanism working out of Amman in Jordan. All of these feed into one another. It is not perfect, but it is working at some level. As the Irish Government provides quite a bit of support for the United Nations, we again urge it to support the strengthening of co-ordination at these levels.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I wish to follow up on a question about the work Concern does in health education provision. We are all aware of the refugee camps in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan and the pressure they put on the governments of these countries, particularly Jordan and Lebanon which have very limited resources. The number of refugees at the Zaatari camp increased from 15,000 to 150,000. The refugee camps in Lebanon are also huge; they have almost new formed cities. Does Concern work within these refugee camps with the UNHCR in the provision of education services, or do they work outside thoe camps?

Ms Brid Kennedy:

The Government of Lebanon has not allowed any official refugee camp. That is why we call them informal settlements or collective centres. The Turkish Government has excellent refugee camps which it is able to manage independently of us. Therefore, our work is outside the camps in both countries.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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That is fine.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

Linked with this, there is a big challenge in accessing all refugees who are hidden away. In the past few years many of them have used all of their resources to rent space. They are living in garages, under awnings or in any place they can find and paying ground rent for all of these spaces, with the result that their own resources are being eroded. Those who initially came across as relatively well off, middle class refugees are hitting rock bottom without support. The other challenge is that there are also poor Lebanese and now Syrians who are receiving some support who are able to compete on an unequal basis for the jobs available at bottom of the greasy pole. As such, this is creating new tensions in seeking access to jobs and services. It is a problem that is waiting to erupt.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Is the issue that many of the people in question will never return to Syria? When we were in Jordan we were told that this was a civil war, that there was no interim solution and that it would go on for ten years. Many of the people in question will settle and not return to their homeland.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

Peace is the only solution. It is a question of getting people back around the table to try to hammer out some solution to enable refugees to go back. During the years we have seen many refugees in different circumstances. Home is the place to be and they will go back home if there is peace and if it the country is in any way calm. It is undignified to be a refugee.

To return to the issue raised by Deputy Olivia Mitchell of the target of 0.7% of GNP, we have seen an economic downturn in recent years. We have seen an erosion of the aid budget not only in terms of the actual monetary amount allocated, but also in terms of the percentage. We are looking at all of the fantastic forecasts at this stage-----

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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So is everybody.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

Exactly - with great hope and anticipation. We hope the allocation will be tied to a percentage increase and not eroded further. It would be great if we received some support in defending moving in the direction of achieving the 0.7% target and getting back on track again. We are in the midst of an unprecedented crisis around the world. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan talked about the limitations on the budget and new money to deal with new crises not easily being available. The ebola crisis is rapidly getting out of control. I am going out to the region on Friday. We are looking at the situation in south Sudan and have big operations taking place in the Central African Republic. The Syrian crisis is just one more. There are floods in Pakistan and mudslides in Afghanistan. The world seems to be a very troubled place and we need to address one crisis at a time to get back on track.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for arriving so late in the proceedings. I was trying to bilocate but found it difficult. I would have liked to have been here for the start of the discussion and appreciate that most of the issues have been discussed already.

So many issues are competing for our attention globally that it makes it almost impossible for international agencies and the international community to deal with them in an effective way. We have discussed this issue previously with the committee. I do not know if we will achieve much progress in this regard, given the comment by the former United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, quoted in the submission, that "The killers, destroyers and torturers in Syria have been empowered and emboldened by the international paralysis." The crucial question is how we address this international paralysis. If the international community is unable to do anything in response to these atrocities, those who commit them will gain power.

Questions were raised in the Dáil yesterday about the people who publicly executed individuals. They wear hoods and masks to avoid being identified. There was a similar situation in Ukraine where soldiers wearing hoods and masks were able to prevent people from identifying the dead and their personal belongings. To what extent should the international community be focusing, at the very least, on the creation of a situation where atrocities might lead to retribution at a later stage, whether through the International Criminal Court or elsewhere? We need to do something about this because otherwise it is going to continue. We will be dealing with a situation that cannot be controlled and the perpetrators will be the only ones who will be laughing.

Jim Walsh (Fianna Fail)
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I thank the delegates for their presentation. Ms O'Mahony stated: "If the current situation continues, we are facing a regional collapse with global consequences." In regard to her recommendations, the Geneva talks opened up the possibility of resolving the issue, but it is difficult to see how that structure could deal with the issues arising, given that it involves Islamic terrorists who have no intention of stopping their advances and terrorism and who will probably export their activities abroad. On who created this mess, we have to point the finger at the United States and the British for invading Iraq without an exit plan or considering the possible consequences. Unfortunately, even the citizens of these countries are paying the price. They appear to have stepped back and are trying to pursue a proxy war, but I cannot see how it can succeed. We need to look for better leadership, but, unfortunately, there is no sign of this. We will probably have to wait several years before there is a new administration in the United States and it is far from certain that it will be better at dealing with these issues.

I ask Ms O'Mahony for an insight into the atrocities that are taking place, some of which she identified in her submission. In the past couple of years I visited Lebanon and Jordan with other members. We visited some of the refugee camps, including, in particular, those located near the Syrian border in Lebanon. Ms O'Mahony's point about the destabilisation of Lebanon is well made. Both Lebanon and Jordan are in a vulnerable position. In the Zaatari camp we met women who were being forced into prostitution because of a lack of law and order. Security was left to the refugees to provide. When we inquired whether there were Christians in the camp, the UN personnel told us that there were but that they had to pretend to be Muslim because their lives would be at risk if certain elements within the camp discovered that they were Christian. I presume that continues to be the case. We have heard a lot about the beheadings, but I am also hearing from other groups that crucifixion has become a common practice among terrorists in Iraq and Syria. Women, in particular, are paying a huge price and it is difficult to see how the issue can be resolved. I am not advocating this, but I can only see it being resolved if the two parties which created the environment in which this mess happened decide to go back to remove the terrorists in the area. There does not appear to be any indication that such an approach might be taken. I ask Ms O'Mahony to disagree with me if she thinks I am misreading the situation or I am being overly alarmist.

Ms Anne O'Mahony:

When there is poor governance and a collapse of the system, a space is created in which terrorists can operate. The only way to address the issue is to rebuild structures. It is necessary to have peace if one is to rebuild structures and reduce the operating space for terrorists. We cannot just wring our hands and say the problem is too big to solve. We have to keep trying to get people around the table to open up the conversation. It is almost as if terrorism can be managed under a wider umbrella because all of the individuals in question have mothers, fathers and families. They are human beings, although some of them may not appear to be. It is a question of closing the space for them to operate. That is what international will and direction can achieve. The higher the level of the players around the table, the better. During the early days of the Syrian crisis there was almost paralysis in the UN security system, with Russia abstaining and no concerted effort being made among leaders. This created the opportunity for the current crisis to emerge in terms of its size and extent. People need to get back around the table to hold substantive talks.

Ms Brid Kennedy:

Senator Jim Walsh asked us for an insight into the atrocities and their impact on people's lives. We hear about a wide range of atrocities in the media and through the refugees we encounter on a daily basis. They include people losing their livelihoods because whereas previously they had jobs and could afford to live a comfortable life, their standards of living have collapsed. The fear factor has escalated enormously, especially in the past few weeks when the air attacks started. Foot soldiers fighting on the ground created considerable fear, but when this is combined with aerial attacks, it creates enormous fear among a massive population in Syria. In addition, the practice of beheading adds to these fears. I understand that while the beheadings are sometimes targeted, often they are random. People can be picked from the street, mediaeval style, and communities are told that a beheading is being carried out and that they must come to watch it. This instils considerable fear. In some ways, those who left for Lebanon, Turkey or Jordan are the lucky ones, as many others are unable to leave because they do not have passports, are too poor to travel or have disabilities or other incapacities.

They have incapacities, disabilities and so on so they are not able to travel. They are living within a restrictive, fearful environment. We know of girls and women who are being raped. We know of punishments because certain rules are not complied with. Beatings are regular so the fear factor in terms of murder, rape and violence is part of everyday life in many parts of Syria. It is not just confined to one area; it is throughout the country.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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I also asked a question on the refugee situation in Ireland and how we decide who we take in. Obviously, we can do more.

Mr. Peter Doyle:

I am not exactly sure how that happens but I know that one of the programmes is for Syrians already living here, and they are then entitled to bring a number of family members over here for a certain period. That is a humanitarian-type visa. I understand that is how one of the schemes works. I am not sure how the other one works but we have to recognise that we have taken leadership in that regard, which is to be welcomed. It would be great if we could do more, but Ireland is leading by example in having such a programme available for Syrians.

Pat Breen (Clare, Fine Gael)
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Does anybody else want to get involved? In that case I thank all the witnesses for coming before the committee this afternoon. I thank Ms O'Mahoney, Ms Kennedy and Mr. Doyle for their contributions and updating us on Concern's activities within Syria and the recommendations they have brought before the committee. We have no problem supporting those recommendations, and we will write to the Minster after today's meeting with a view to the Government supporting those recommendations. They are very reasonable recommendations and they will go some way towards our contribution, outside of our financial contribution, to supporting a peaceful solution in the region.

We will have the Minister in here in the coming weeks when I am sure this issue will be still on the agenda, as the situation deteriorates on a daily basis in Syria and in the border region with Turkey. Obviously, we should never forget about the humanitarian situation which Concern deals with, particularly its role in dealing with health, education and other areas, and providing fresh water within Syria also. We commend it on that and we commend its volunteers who are out there putting their lives in danger on a daily basis. It is something we should never forget, particularly when we consider the fate of the British taxi driver who broke off his Christmas holiday to help these people. We should never forget the volunteers who are putting their lives in danger.

As Ms O'Mahoney said, other issues will arise. There is the ebola crisis in west Africa and the deteriorating situation in south Sudan where everybody is talking about the famine that will happen there, and we cannot stop it. We will revisit those issues in the coming months and we hope to see all the witnesses in the near future. I thank them sincerely for coming before the committee and briefing the members on the humanitarian situation. We will be dealing with other issues in Syria, including the political issues, with other groupings. We hope to have some journalists, United Nations representatives and Government representatives before the committee in the coming months. We had a most interesting discussion and it is always a pleasure to hear about the good work Concern is doing in these areas of conflict.

We will now go into private session for the remainder of the meeting.