Mr. Ultan Courtney:

It is a very good question and it is extremely difficult to answer having been put on the pedestal of a visionary. It will be a balancing act in regard to that but I am looking forward to that challenge because it probably requires a fresh pair of eyes, a little experience and a little expertise. I am not just talking about myself but about the board of Dublin Bus, which is made up of capable, commercially-minded and public sector minded people who know that things are changing and they must change with them. They also know they have to lead it and therefore they have to come in before people like the members and have a vision in regard to that. They have to tell the population of Dublin what they intend to do for them. They also have to tell the workforce what they need them to do for them, and outline what the board will do for them. It is a hearts and minds process. The Senator has asked a very good question, and it is often forgotten in discussions in Dublin Bus on finances and subventions that we are talking about a very good group of people, many of whom have long service.

They are very dedicated and committed to providing the service. I met a man recently with whom I worked 30 years ago. He is still driving the bus and still committed to doing the job, and he wants to be out there. As we sit here and when we go home this evening the buses will still be running; guys will be getting up at 4 a.m. to take the buses out and they will be working until late at night on Nitelink and everything else. They will be doing the business and they are committed.

In my view, industrial relations have improved. We all faced a very difficult set of circumstances over the past number of years when, due to economic circumstances, everybody had to take a cut. We have all taken various cuts in bits and pieces. It is difficult to go to any workforce and ask them to take a cut, and in the case of Dublin Bus the last round was the third round. People are genuinely fearful as they wonder whether this will ever stop and whether a turnaround will come. Trust became somewhat damaged in that process. The excellent management in Dublin Bus worked really hard to convince people that if we did this we could get ourselves on a proper footing and be able to start to grow again, to grow with the city and to grow with the economy. We all bought into that hope; we took all the cuts in the hope that the economy would start to turn around. There are signs that this is happening and the shoots are there. We still have problems; Senator Barrett will be able to enunciate those economic problems far better than me. We still have them and we confront them. The guys and people driving the buses want to see a future as well, and that is the prize.

I was heartened by the process in which I was involved, although it was a very difficult process. The Labour Court had issued a recommendation, and I and Mr. Dowling - who is an excellent mediator - worked hard over many hours. We talked to people and we tried to understand why people were rejecting the recommendation - in many cases out of fear or mistrust, or because they held the view that this was an excuse to take money away. The current proposition is a bargain between the management and the workforce that was freely entered into and agreed, and that bargain has been honoured. People can now see that passenger numbers are going up and Dublin Bus revenue is starting to increase. We have stabilised the subvention and we are in a position in which we have a proposition. We are going to grow with the city and we will face anything that comes our way, whether that be in the public sector, to do with the subvention, or a decision to open the market. Whatever happens, Dublin Bus will be there and will face anything that comes its way.

What is sometimes missed is that Dublin Bus has very good staff who are fully committed; they are the last people who want to be in dispute. People only go out on dispute when they feel they have no option; the day of going out on dispute as an option is long gone in any of the CIE companies. People go on dispute now because they see it as the only option. My role and that of other people in the company is to provide an alternative. That is what we did in the proposal; we offered an alternative way forward, and they bought into it.

The green shoots have appeared and Dublin Bus is fighting back. It is a completely different job from what I remember in the past. There were good men in those days too - and women - who were on the buses and who provided a great social service. Senator Paschal Mooney will be very familiar with the service provided by bus conductors. A much wider range of services is being provided now. They are dealing with the younger population who are looking at Dublin Bus services on Facebook and Twitter and accessing real-time passenger information and apps. I struggle with some of this, but these things are natural to the young and we want to capture the young population and keep them. We are hoping to catch the marginal customer. We have people who will always use our services and those who occasionally use our services. Other people will make a choice. For example, I had a choice today as to how I would travel to this meeting. The best choice for me today was public transport; I arrived by public transport and I will go home by public transport, because it is the best choice for me. I am one of the marginal people because I have a choice: I can use the car or I can walk. I admit to Senator Eamonn Coghlan that I cannot run. I elect to make the choice to use public transport because the service is available. However, the demand from the customer is that we must be there when we are needed and we go where they want to go.

The network review is a major change. Up to a couple of years ago I used to be able to say where every bus went.

Up to a couple of years ago, I did; now I do not have a clue because the service is across the city and citywide; it goes everywhere one wants to go. It has changed and we are constantly challenged by it because Dublin is very spread out and a low-density city. It is a major challenge for us to provide the service and we will continue to examine it.

Industrial relations are better and will continue to improve because there is a process of engagement and we have all learned that the only way we will solve problems is through discussion and engagement. There is always negotiation and, at the end of the day, we do business. My job, as chairman of the board, is to help management to consider alternatives and suggest better ways.