Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the gentlemen for their presentations. I will divide my questions into two groups given that the groups made two presentations. I will direct my questions to the representatives of the owners association first and then direct some question to the stable staff association. I would say to Mr. John Weld and Mr. Aiden Burns that the industry would not work if we did not have owners who invested at the level that they do in ownership.

The point we need to bring back to the powers that be is that this is people's discretionary spend, the after-tax money or profit they have made from whatever enterprise in which they are involved, which they could spend in any area. That money goes directly to employing the stable staff and all the other facets of the industry which as Mr. John Weld said in areas where there are not many other alternatives, as opposed to urban areas. I presume the Association of Irish Racehorse Owners represents owners large and small of the National Hunt and National Flat and perhaps he would indicate the numbers in each category.

I note the points made in respect of the membership of the board. That is something we will have to bear in mind when preparing our report to feed back into the process. We note also his point regarding the term of the CEO in the future. He commented also on proper facilities. Obviously there is quite a disparity between the race tracks. Some have had significant funding while others, such as the Curragh are in need of development. If investment was to be made, where is it most needed from the owners point of view? Both witnesses mentioned facilities but they are both very different. The stable staff facilities are backstage, so to speak, and are very important if one is working a 16 hour day and one is hanging around a stable yard, while the owners' facilities are very different and need to be modern. These are high net worth individuals, many of whom are from abroad and we need to ensure we have the facilities that make them feel as important as they are to us and that they are well looked after.

No doubt the witnesses have had occasion to frequent other countries. How would our facilities for owners compare and how does the treatment of owners compare with that in other countries? The overall package is how we look after the owners and how we make them feel important. Is there some way in which we can improve that?

In regard to the heads of the Bill and the point on the fixtures committee, are there failings in the fixtures system at present? Alternatively, is the system perfect and should it not be touched? What has been the input of the owners into the fixtures programme committee, as referenced? Is Mr. Weld happy that the owners' voice is being heard? Perhaps he could compare the present situation with what is proposed for the future? The witness mentioned the crossover between Horse Racing Ireland and the Turf Club, at the heart of which is the whole area of integrity. I am on record as saying to the Department officials earlier that integrity is something that can potentially be taken for granted because we have it, but when it is lost one does not get it back. We need to be very careful to ensure that any measure that is introduced does not compromise integrity because the good name of our industry is key.

There was a reference to other countries. Perhaps the witnesses would explain their experience of how other countries deal with issues of integrity, those that have a more streamlined and amalgamated approach where integrity and regulation all come under the one head and how they consider that has worked. Perhaps that could be fleshed out a little more.

Outsourcing of administration was also mentioned. I presume that currently all administration is carried out by HRI and the Turf Club.

Mr. Bernard Caldwell said that the 4,000 stable staff members are the lifeblood of the industry. Many of those 4,000 people are constituents of mine as they live around the Curragh area but their commitment goes far beyond the job which is not a 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday job. Horses do not know whether it is Saturday or Sunday. Given that the stable staff are so passionate about horses and the equine industry they may be taken advantage of by the industry. While they love the job they do, €9.72 per hour is not huge money.

The issue of funding the horse racing industry was mentioned. While it is not within the remit of this committee to influence the funding mechanism we need to get to a point where the industry is self-financing. It never wanted to depend on the hand-outs of others. Mistakes were made in the past by previous Governments. The reduction in the betting tax from 2% to 1% was a mistake, for which I do not think there was ever any justification. We all know this industry is competing with schools and hospitals for funding at a time of difficult economic conditions, but it has taken the trouble to make its case even though it is a huge employer of more than 16,000 people and has a net worth value of more than €1 billion. It is preferable to bring the industry back to a point where it is self-financing. That is in the interests of everybody including the owners and the stable staff. It is interesting that we have representatives from the two associations appear before the committee as they are at opposite ends of the scale but equally important. I do not say that in a disparaging way. It comprises the front of house high profile owners and the stable staff behind the scenes and encapsulates what the industry is about.

From his point of view, perhaps Mr. Bernard Caldwell would outline where he would like to see an improvement in facilities. I presume some tracks are better than others in respect of stable staff facilities. It is obviously not just about the race day as many stable staff are riding every morning. I note his point about the divide between the turf club and HRI. He also mentioned board representation, that is a consideration we need to take on board. Any sector of this size would feel that its role or representation was diminished. Will he outline how stable staff were represented before 2001 and how the Irish Stable Staff Association has contributed since 2001 as a full member of the board? Does he feel that since 2001 the board has been the perfect system or if it could be changed how he proposes that could be done?