David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy John Paul Phelan and Senator Tony Mulcahy. Deputy Anne Ferris regrets that she will not be able to attend this part of the meeting, but she may attend later.

The purpose of the meeting is to hear a presentation on UN Security Council Resolution 1325 on women, peace and security. It is a very important resolution. On behalf of the joint committee, I am very pleased to welcome Ms Liz McManus, chair of the monitoring group. She is most welcome to this unfamiliar place. I also welcome Mr. Greg Heylin, director of COSC, National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence, which comes within the remit of the Department of Justice and Equality. Mr. David Byrne from the Department of Defence is also very welcome and I thank him for being present. I welcome Ms Helena Keleher, deputy director of the conflict resolution unit of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Comdt. Jayne Lawlor from the Defence Forces and Ms Salome Mbugua from AkiDwA who is a member of the monitoring group. It is nice to meet her again. She is very welcome and I thank her for attending.

The format is that delegates will be invited to make an opening statement of approximately five minutes. I urge them not to go beyond that time as there are many speakers and time is limited. The presentations will be followed by a question and answer session with members.

I ask members, delegates and observers in the Visitors Gallery to please turn off all mobile phones or else to leave them in airplane or flight safe mode, depending on the device used. It is not enough to leave them in silent mode because they interfere with the sound transmission in committee rooms which impacts negatively on broadcasting. If, in the course of proceedings, there is interference, I will ask that phones be turned off completely.

Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of the proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members should be aware that, under the salient rulings of the Chair, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I apologise for the late start. We had some private business to conduct before we could meet in public. I invite Ms McManus to commence her opening statement.

Ms Liz McManus:

I thank the Chairman and committee members for inviting us to attend. I appreciate that the committee has a lot of work items on its agenda and it is really appreciated that time has been made available to us.
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325, UNSCR 1325, recognises the unique and disproportionate impact of conflict on women, but it is also about the critical role women can play in war prevention, peace building and post-conflict reconstruction. As a consequence of signing the UN resolution, Ireland produced a national action plan that was published in 2011 and which set targets both in terms of international engagements but also in terms of domestic work, specifically the work of this committee and that of the Department of Justice and Equality, and the role of the Defence Forces. We are talking about the recruitment of women into An Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces and the approach taken in our overseas work. We also focus on the services provided in this country for women who come from conflict zones.
I am the independent chair of the monitoring group which is composed 50:50 of civil society organisation, State agencies and Departments. I pay tribute to all of the members who give of their time to make the group work. One of the tasks we had to fulfil was delivery of a mid-term review which was ably carried out by Ms Karen McMinn and Ms Bronagh Hinds. The report is lengthier than the national action plan. It sets out clearly what progress has been made and what work still needs to be done.
It is worth noting that the Defence Forces come in for particular praise in how they have responded to the national action plan. Work is also being done by the Department of Justice and Equality, but there are also outstanding issues. I will quickly read the recommendations made and conclusions reached:

The Department of Justice and Equality should progress actions to promote awareness and provision of support services to women and girls from conflict-affected areas living in Ireland who are experiencing or recovering from domestic, sexual or gender-based violence [in their country of origin]. The Department should co-ordinate a holistic approach to women from conflict-affected countries involving effectively the range of divisions and agencies in the Department that have a role. CSOs [civil society organisations] should be involved in assisting to document the women's experiences.

I ask the committee to consider the national action plan review and, if possible, engage with the key agencies but also submit to the consultative process being carried out for the next national plan because there are measures that have been taken, measures that need to be taken and measures that cannot be taken. We recognise it is a work in progress.

I invite the other speakers to contribute. They are David Byrne, Department of Defence, Jayne Lawlor, Irish Defence Forces, Greg Heylin, Department of Justice and Equality, and Salome Mbugua from AkiDwA.

Mr. David Byrne:

My role here is to outline what the Department of Defence does with regard to the area of women, peace and security. Our role is particularly at the strategic and policy level. I work in the international security and defence policy area. I also have responsibility for European Union issues. That is not always a neat fit, so to speak, but when we are looking at EU missions going abroad, the gender aspect comes into it. The international security and defence policy unit of the Department of Defence has responsibility for this issue. We have responsibility also for defence related issues arising in the EU and the United Nations along with the European Defence Agency.

My area of responsibility covers EU issues, particularly the common security and defence policy, CSDP, of the EU and assisting in developing Ireland’s views in this area as well as the issue of women, peace and security. The CSDP is the way the EU meets its international obligations to maintain international peace and security. This is done by the CSDP providing the EU with an operational capacity to undertake crisis management tasks outside the territory of the EU. This does not just refer to military tasks as there is a significant civilian and humanitarian dimension to dealing with such crises. The EU has developed what it calls a comprehensive approach to dealing with crises and includes economic, diplomatic, political, military and humanitarian instruments.

As part of my brief I have responsibility for UN Security Council Resolution 1325 and the associated resolutions which deal with women, peace and security. Every document that emanates from the EU that involves defence issues crosses my desk. This can range from rapid response concepts to mission updates to developing new missions. We co-ordinate closely with our colleagues in the Department of Foreign Affairs to ensure a national approach is taken.

The development of new missions and the reviews of existing missions is where we can achieve most with regard to women peace and security. When missions are being established, they go through a number of phases, and the documentation is reviewed each time at various committees. This is where we have our national input in that any mission must have unanimous agreement of all member states at Council. For example, when the EU training mission to Mali was being discussed, Ireland ensured there were specific references to human rights and gender awareness included in the relevant planning documents.

The EU also has a policy for the implementation of the Security Council resolutions in the context of CSDP missions and operations. This document takes account of lessons learnt and has the aim of ensuring gender mainstreaming and implementation of the resolutions from early planning through to the conduct of the operation. That is a brief flavour of how, strategically, we undertake our role in this issue in the Department.

Ireland is also a member of the NATO Partnership for Peace programme. As such we develop national goals to be achieved on an annual basis. We in the Department negotiate these partnership goals, one of which was on gender perspectives using UN Security Council Resolution 1325 as the departure point. That led to the Defence Forces implementing this goal from an operational perspective.

NATO has also issued its own review relating to its implementation of the resolution in the conduct of NATO-led operations and missions. As members will be aware, NATO undertakes missions and operations on behalf of the UN, and this review has looked at the practical side of addressing Resolution 1325 specifically in its missions.

The final area I will briefly touch on is training. Ireland is a member of the board of the European Security and Defence College, ESDC, which undertakes training in the area of common security and defence policy; it is a virtual college. This college regularly runs courses on gender and operations covering areas such as gender in the planning process of operations, conflict related sexual violence and gender in security sector reform. Courses are also run on the reform of the security sector itself, which includes modules on gender sensitive peacekeeping operations. We in the Department have been strong supporters of the college and chaired the steering board of the college during the Irish Presidency of the European Council.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Byrne. That was very interesting. Commandant Lawlor is next.

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

My name is Commandant Jayne Lawlor and I am the gender equality and diversity officer in the Defence Forces. Ms McManus asked me to come here today to explain what the Defence Forces are doing to implement Resolution 1325 in the Defence Forces.

The national action plan lists 12 specific tasks and the Defence Forces are listed and named in six of those tasks. After the Department of Foreign Affairs, we are the second most heavily tasked organisation in Ireland.

In terms of how we go about implementing these tasks, which was the main objective that fell on my shoulders when I took over this role, I wrote a Defence Forces action plan on the implementation of Resolution 1325. At the time we were only the second military in the world to do that. The action plan outlines in clear, concise format how we will to do it, the reason we are doing it, the timelines and the objectives. It is all set so that at the end of it we can tick the box and say we have done something, or have not, and the area in which we have fallen down.

UN Security Council Resolution 1325 and the national action plan are built on a number of pillars. The three main pillars that concern the Defence Forces are protection of women and children and the vulnerable; prevention of violence against women and children, particularly sexual violence; and participation. For us that means increasing the number of female personnel in the Defence Forces.

I will give a brief example of the way the Defence Forces can make themselves known and go about our job is in protection and prevention. We had Irish troops stationed in Chad, and one of the main jobs we had to do was the protection of the IDP camps. In terms of what was happening, as the women were leaving the IDP camps to go to the local town-----

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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What are IDP camps?

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

Sorry; internally displaced personnel. It refers to refugees who have not crossed a border. The women and children were leaving the IDP camps to go to the local towns and villages to sell their wares or to buy food and necessities for their families, but once they were away from the camp and the protection ceased, they were being abused and raped. There was no protection afforded to them. One of the Irish soldiers, who happened to be a female soldier, was in the camps one day on official business and she was approached by a person from a non-governmental organisation who brought what was happening to her attention. Until we were told about it we were not aware of it.

There are two aspects to this, first, having a female peacekeeper present and the fact that the NGO found it much easier to approach a female. The second aspect is that when she returned, she brought the issue to the attention of the commanders and a very simple plan was put in place whereby the Irish patrolled those roads on the day. Their presence was a show of force and as a result the women could go about their local business in a protected fashion. It is a very simple example but highlights an easy way of how we go about the business.

On what does the Defence Forces action plan on implementing Resolution 1325 concentrate or how do we go about implementing gender perspective? The key is education. From the day one joins the Defence Forces until one becomes a general, when one gets promoted and does a career course one has gender awareness, gender-based violence or sexual exploitation and abuse lectures at every stage. The lectures are tailored to one's rank and experience to ensure one is not getting the same lecture repeatedly.

On pre-deployment training, before we send people overseas, they receive six hours of human rights training and specific gender training. That covers basic gender awareness but it also covers gender-based violence and sexual exploitation and abuse.

We discuss issues such as codes of conduct including concrete measures to ensure the soldiers know the behaviour that is acceptable and unacceptable. We have turned the UN blue card, which is a list of "do's" and "don'ts", into an Irish soldier's card and made it much more personal to us. That outlines the behaviour that is and is not acceptable.

In terms of when I talk to the soldiers, it is a male-dominated and quite macho environment, but I use that to my advantage and appeal to the protective nature of each soldier going out on missions. I tell them that the onus is on every one of them to be aware of these issues and look out for human trafficking, gender-based violence and systematic rape and then take appropriate action, whether that is reported up the chain of command or, if possible, to intervene on the ground. That depends on our mandate at the time.

The third point is integrating a gender perspective. I am operating at Defence Forces headquarters level. We also have other gender advisers operating at the brigade and formation levels, and then we have gender focal points operating at the lowest unit level. They are people who have a greater awareness of gender issues and they are then able to implement a gender perspective at the lowest level at all times.

As for the greatest challenge in the future, probably the biggest point brought home to us in the mid-term review was about increasing female participation in the Defence Forces. Obviously, the female members of the joint committee will be aware of the challenges of recruiting female personnel into certain fields, as well as their retention in those fields. This is something on which I have been working extensively. At the beginning of this year, we wrote to 400 schools and personally visited 140 schools, targeting female personnel and explaining to them what the Defence Forces can offer as a career and how it is something they should consider. It is a challenge, particularly because we have full equality and full integration of our female personnel. Consequently, we must ensure we are getting the right standard of person who is able to do the physical aspect of our job without dropping our standards. That is my greatest challenge for the future and I thank members for their time.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank Commandant Lawlor and reiterate that the joint committee is a great admirer of the Defence Forces at all levels. The commandant's observations have been a breath of fresh air for members for which I thank her. In addition, I believe she is one of the first members of the Defence Forces to present to an Oireachtas committee. Perhaps this is a first in this regard, at least as far as I can remember, and the commandant is most welcome.

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

I thank the Chairman.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I invite Mr. Greg Heylin to make his opening statement.

Mr. Greg Heylin:

The three actions assigned to the Department of Justice and Equality under Ireland's national action plan for the implementation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 are first, to promote awareness of and reasonable access to services for migrants, which can assist them with their recovery from domestic, sexual or gender-based violence, subject to resources, second, to facilitate established non-governmental organisations in their efforts to document the experiences of women and girls who have been affected by conflict in their countries of origin to better inform public service provisions and interaction with these women and girls and third, to introduce a single application procedure for protection applicants, whereby all elements of their application to be permitted to remain in Ireland will be fully considered in one single process with the possibility to appeal the protection-related aspects of their application to a new independent tribunal. I will address each of these actions in turn.
As for promoting awareness, the Reception and Integration Agency, RIA, in the Department of Justice and Equality has recently agreed a RIA policy and practice document on safeguarding RIA residents against domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and harassment. This policy was agreed between RIA, Cosc, AkiDwA, Ruhama, the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, the Domestic Violence Advocacy Service, the Irish Refugee Council and the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and is available to download from the RIA website. A training programme for staff and an awareness-raising campaign for residents will follow shortly. The policy will be officially implemented once the required training takes place. In advance of this, information posters already have been distributed to all RIA centres. These posters, which are available in five languages including English, provide information on accessing professional help if residents have suffered or are suffering from domestic, sexual or gender-based violence or harassment. All potential victims of human trafficking who are notified to An Garda Síochána are informed of the services and supports available to them, including the services of the Reception and Integration Agency, the Health Service Executive and the Legal Aid Board. These bodies also are informed of the person’s details. Each individual can then decide of which services to avail, depending on his or her individual circumstances.
Documenting experiences is the second measure we are required to action and in 2012, Cosc, the National Office for the Prevention of Domestic, Sexual and Gender-based Violence, funded AkiDwA to produce an awareness-raising booklet entitled We Lived to Tell. This booklet aimed to raise awareness of domestic violence and to challenge the culture of minimisation and denial of domestic violence among migrant communities. It also aimed to empower and support survivors and those who experience domestic violence. The booklet can be used as a resource tool for service providers, the public and educational institutions and was launched by me on 30 November 2012 at the invitation of AkiDwA. One of the stories details how a woman had to flee the country where she was living when war broke out and there were accounts circulating of women being raped. When she went with her boyfriend to live in his country, she was subjected to domestic violence. I believe Ms Salome Mbugua will talk about this project in more detail.
As part of the review of the National Action Plan to Prevent and Combat Trafficking in Human Beings on Ireland 2009-2012, a pilot user satisfaction survey regarding the State’s anti-human trafficking services was conducted with a sample of alleged victims of trafficking. On the basis of the pilot study, it was found that obtaining the views of victims on their satisfaction levels was an achievable goal. However, the means by which information is collected requires further consideration if this approach is to be used generally in the future. The Rape Crisis Network Ireland produces detailed annual statistics on users of all rape crisis services in Ireland. Six graphs and tables refer directly to refugees or asylum seekers, outlining the gender of the victim and the type of violence experienced. Safe Ireland, the national body for domestic violence organisations, produces a single-day census of users of 37 front-line services. This census gives a breakdown of the nationality and ethnic origins of the women using the services.
I will now turn to the final item, that is, the single application process. The introduction of a single procedure for protection applicants will result in a re-organisation of the protection processing framework that will see the removal of the current sequential processes. This will allow a protection applicant to get a final decision on his or her application in a more straightforward and timely fashion and should reduce greatly the time taken to process a case to finality. In reply to Parliamentary Question No. 170 of Thursday, 12 June, concerning immigration reform and the publication of the Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill, the Minister stated as follows:

I wish to assure the Deputy that the Government remains committed to immigration reform as provided for under the Programme for Government and under the Government Legislation Programme. Since my appointment as Minister for Justice and Equality, I have been considering the many and varied issues that have arisen, and continue to arise, in relation to this key area of statutory reform. Quite clearly significant legislative reform is required in this area - not least because of evolving jurisprudence and developments elsewhere. Moreover, some of the reform measures required are patently more urgent than others. For example, legislating to provide the means for a single procedure and related issues to deal with all protection claims is of priority in that it will provide the legislative framework for removing the structural delays which are a feature of our existing protection system. I am particularly anxious, therefore, to ensure that legislation to deal at least with the more urgent issues is brought forward this year. In that respect work by my officials on legislative reform in this area continues including in conjunction with the Offices of the Attorney General and of the Parliamentary Counsel.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I thank Mr. Heylin and invite Ms Salome Mbugua to make her opening statement.

Ms Salome Mbugua:

I thank the Chairman and members of the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality for affording us the opportunity to speak to them this morning. Before proceeding further, I wish to acknowledge the Africa Day Award made to the committee on Saturday, 7 June. This award recognises the very important work this committee undertakes and I congratulate all members for their efforts. As members have heard, I am Salome Mbugua, the chief executive officer of AkiDwA, which is a national migrant women’s network in Ireland. I also am the former vice chair of the National Women’s Council of Ireland. In 2010 I was involved in the development of the national action plan on Resolution 1325 and I currently sit on the advisory and monitoring group of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

My organisation, AkiDwA, has been working with migrant women of all backgrounds and with different immigration status for more than a decade. Over the years, we have supported many women that came to Ireland seeking protection and ended up within the asylum system. My presentation to members today is therefore informed by AkiDwA’s experience of engaging with women from war-torn countries. I also have personal first-hand experience of engaging directly with women living in armed conflict through my voluntary work with Wezesha. Wezesha is an African diaspora in Ireland initiative, of which I am the co-founder, working in the Democratic Republic of Congo and in Kenya. Since 2012 I have visited Africa on a number of occasions and the Democratic Republic of Congo in particular and have engaged directly with victims and survivors of violence and conflict.

I wish to take this opportunity to acknowledge and thank the Irish Government for the support it has given and continues to give to countries that have less. I thank in particular the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and its Irish Aid programme. The Irish Aid programme has supported many positive initiatives in Africa that have had a positive impact on people’s lives and have improved their educational and economic status. Much of this work has had a particular focus on improvements to the lives of women and children, which is to be commended. The development of Ireland’s national action plan on Resolution 1325 and its implementation clearly confirms the commitment that our country has made in addressing the matters contained within the resolution. We have made good progress and I am sure much more will be achieved, as this is an ongoing process.

Objective 3 of the national action plan seeks protection for women from gender-based violence and other forms of sexual exploitation and abuse. In the action plan, Ireland has committed to increase access to justice for women and vulnerable groups, to promote awareness of and provide reasonable access to support services for migrants, which can assist them with their recovery from domestic, sexual or gender based violence. Again, I commend Departments and agencies of the Government, as well as NGOs, on advancing actions in respect of objective 3. I thank in particular the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive's social inclusion unit for being to the fore in progressing work on female genital mutilation in Ireland.

One Senator, a member of the committee, Senator Ivana Bacik, was key in pushing it forward.

The Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012 took effect in September of that year. Last month the Irish Family Planning Association, with funding from the HSE, opened a one-stop clinic which will provide survivors of female genital mutilation with a range of specialised services, including counselling and treatments.

Other areas in which I can cite progress include our dealings with COSC which Mr. Heylin mentioned, awareness raising and publication of the book and the Reception and Integration Agency in the development of policy. Through direct engagement with these bodies, policies have been developed on preventing and addressing sexual harassment and gender based violence within direct provision centres, whether by managers, staff or residents. However, these policies have yet to be implemented which gives cause for concern. A further source of concern is the lack of monitoring of the 2012 Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act and the fact that there has been no official awareness-raising of the Act to inform victims and survivors of its provisions.

While we acknowledge all efforts and support from various Departments and Government agencies, we are concerned that Resolution 1325 is not taken seriously enough within Departments and institutions that have the greatest influence on the lives of women that the resolution seeks to protect. The Department of Justice and Equality and its various offices and agencies such as the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner, the Reception and integration Agency, COSC and the Office for the Promotion of Migrants Integration have most influence and authority over the lives of women and children now living in Ireland whom the resolution targets. These bodies have to be to the fore.

Some areas need to be highlighted, the first of which is moving beyond basic needs. While the basic needs of most women within the asylum system in Ireland might have been met and while they may feel more secure, their psychological and social well-being has not been addressed. The majority continue to struggle with trauma. Some, even though they were not raped, would have witnessed their family being killed in front of them. There are definitely gaps and a lack of specialised supports available. Other challenges include language barriers and the lack of support networks.

The second issue is applying transparent gender asylum guidelines. Since 2008 AkiDwA has advocated for the implementation of asylum gender guidelines in order that the gender specific concerns about rape, female genital mutilation and exploitation during conflict would be recognised within the asylum process. Based on statistics available to AkiDwA, at least 3,780 women are in need of such protection. We have advocated for guidelines in line with those used by the UNHCR. The Refugee Applications Office states it has implemented its own guidelines. However, they are not publicly available.

The third issue is the length of time spent in asylum centres which affects the psychological well-being of women, the majority of whom, some from war torn countries, have been living in asylum centres for years, some for up to eight years.

The fourth issue is deportation. On World Refugee Day last year, for example, deportations were carried out to the Democratic Republic of Congo where there was an ongoing conflict. The way deportations are carried out tends to be more traumatic for women and they return more traumatised than when they came to Ireland. There are no transparent, objective and published guidelines on which asylum decisions are made, including application criteria and grounds for refusal. In 2012 the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner invited AkiDwA to make a submission on domestic gender guidelines; however, we are yet to see the final draft and the guidelines being made public.

The fiifth issue is that that there is a need for the provision of training and support for all those working with vulnerable groups such as women who have experienced gender specific harm to ensure culturally competent health responses.

Support is needed for organisatiodns working with migrant women. While AkiDwA is the only migrant-led organisation working on the issue of female genital mutilation or supporting migrant women, particularly from war torn countries, we depend on a half-time member of staff to provide support for survivors and raise awareness country-wide. This is a clear indication of how under-resourced is this important work.

There is a need for interdepartmental co-ordination and commitment from all Departments and units involved. This is crucial if Ireland is to achieve its commitment to Resolution 1325 and hence uphold human rights for all. I call on the committee to include the Department of Education and Skills because it is important to have it on board.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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I thank all those who have spoken for their excellent presentations. We have received a good overview of the work being done on the monitoring plan for Resolution 1325.

I have a specific question for Ms Mbugua to whom I should say "Thank you" for the mention in connection with the Female Genital Mutilation Bill 2010. In fact, I have two questions, the first of which is on awareness-raising of what is now the Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012. I attended the opening of the Irish Family Planning Association's one-stop clinic which it is running with the HSE for women who have experienced female genital mutilation and it is a positive step forward. What specifically should be done to raise awareness among women who may have been victims of female genital mutilation and to ensure there will be greater awareness of the legislation to criminalise it?

My second question is to Commandant Jayne Lawlor whom I thank for the excellent presentation on the impressive work being done in the Defence Forces. I am conscious that, traditionally, there have been low numbers of women recruited to the Defence Forces, as she stated. As a result, is it too soon to see an increase in the numbers of women coming forward? What proportion of new recruits are women?

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I will ask Ms Mbugua to respond first. I will then call Commandant Lawlor.

Ms Salome Mbugua:

I thank Senator Ivana Bacik. As she will be aware, when we developed the first national action plan on female genital mutilation, no Department took ownership of it and it has been difficult to move matters forward. I named the Department of Education and Skills because its help is needed in moving forward. What is needed to raise awareness further is resources. As I stated, AkiDwA is the only group or organisation trying to reach the health care professionals and those who have either experienced female genital mutilation or supported them. We definitely need resources. We have trained more community ambassadors from the affected communities to reach out to a large number of people around the country. We have asked the Department of Health and the HSE, with which we are working, to help us to come up with a second national action plan in order that the HSE can help us in monitoring what is happening in dealing with the issue of female genital mutilation. In Ireland there are 3,780 women who have endured female genital mutilation and definitely need support.

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

According to current figures, 6.1% of the members of the Defence Forces are female.

Ivana Bacik (Independent)
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How many is that?

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

Approximately 560 out of 9,500. There are two main reasons - recruitment and retention. In terms of recruitment, we started this year. Because of the moratorium in the public service there was no recruitment, either of males or females. What happened was that the school visits ceased, while the Defence Forces presence at the career option events came to an end because there was no recruitment. We need to get out and raise awareness and we started this year by contacting schools. I wrote to every school in the country that had more than 200 female pupils and asked if we could visit them. That is something we need to continue. Other measures at which we could look would include visiting sports clubs to try to get girls who are interested in sport. Obviously, there is a suitability aspect and they should be physically capable of doing the job.

Retention has always been an issue. We are examining a number of family-friendly policies. One of the main factors for us - it is specific to the Defence Forces - is that many of our courses tend to be long residential courses. I have four children at home and it is difficult to go and spend nine months at the Curragh. We are looking at modularising these courses in order that one can take them over two years.

The second main factor is serving overseas. If one has a young family, it is difficult to go away and leave one's children for six or nine months. We are looking at job-sharing overseas in order that will one spend, perhaps, three or four months overseas at a time instead of six. We are trying to look at different ways of doing things and different initiatives in this regard.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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My first question which is related to the immigrant community is to Mr. Heylin and Ms Mbugua.

There is widespread criticism of direct-provision centres as a model. Is that the best place to have families that have endured the type of experience about which we are talking in terms of domestic violence and sexual violence? What is the Department's view on that? Is there an intention to cease the practice of direct-provision centres?

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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We will deal with that question first and I will come back to the Deputy for the second one. I call Mr. Heylin.

Mr. Greg Heylin:

I thank Deputy Mac Lochlainn for that question. I am afraid what I have to say as a civil servant is that it is Government policy to continue with the direct provision through the Reception and Integration Agency. Until Government policy is changed, the Department will continue to provide the best care it can within the Reception and Integration Agency. I cannot say anything further than that.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I appreciate Mr. Heylin cannot challenge Government policy on this. In terms of the Department's responsibility to this plan, if we are to implement the objectives of this plan, the direct-provision centre environment is not appropriate to support women and children adequately. It strikes me that we are not really serious about this plan if we insist on having women and children live in those environments.

Mr. Greg Heylin:

I appreciate where the Deputy is coming from in that regard. I reiterate that it is Government policy and within that Government policy the Reception and Integration Agency is doing the very best it can, for instance in the introduction of the new protocol on sexual and gender-based violence within the centres. That is not just going to deal with incidents in the centres, but it will raise awareness of the residents to the services provided by rape-crisis centres and domestic violence services. We have evidence that people are using those facilities or using rape-crisis centres from the statistics that Rape Crisis Network Ireland gathers. The awareness of those services will be increased within the RIA centres through the new protocol and the staff will be trained and tuned in to the whole issue of gender-based violence within the centres. Once people are listening for gender-based violence, they will hear it much more broadly and will not just be hearing of incidents that might happen in the centres. They will begin to create an environment where people will be able to come forward and say, "I was raped in a war situation and I need some service and assistance."

Ms Liz McManus:

Ms Mbugua might like to add to that.

Ms Salome Mbugua:

While this is a Government policy, it was supposed to be that people would stay in direct provision for a short time. However, as I outlined in my presentation, it has been eight years for some people. Even if they are experiencing domestic violence within the direct-provision centre, they cannot leave because where do they go to from there? When one talks about even refugees and people who can take them, they are entitled to accommodate people because they are taking public funds, as asylum-seekers sending them out of the direct provision centres. The problem is the length of time and the conditions within those centres. While we appreciate it is a Government policy, it is a Government policy that has failed in some ways and needs to be looked into.

We had asked for a women-only centre. One can naturally imagine even trafficked women are also put into these direct-provision centres. They are not secure there and their needs are not very well met when they are in the direct-provision system.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is Ms Mbugua suggesting women-only centres?

Ms Salome Mbugua:

We have suggested women-only centres.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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We have done some work here on racism and integration and we have some more to do. We certainly will continue with that. The Reception and Integration Agency and the centres will be part of that work. We hope to have a report ready to go to Government on that in early autumn, which will feed into what Deputy Mac Lochlainn said about changing policy.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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My final questions are for Mr. Byrne and Commandant Lawlor. In 2001 research carried out by Dr. Tom Cloonan, who was then a serving member of the Defence Forces, found an alarming level of sexual harassment of female soldiers, right up to reports of allegations of attempted rape. At that time there was clearly a serious problem. He has written a book, Whistleblower, Soldier, Spy, which outlines his experiences, having revealed this through his own research. He was treated appallingly, according to his account, by his former colleagues. There was a culture of resisting the change that was necessary in creating an environment that was safe for the women there.

Since then I understand there have been very significant changes in the environment in terms of the equality structures that are in place around that. It is not unique to our Defence Forces. As we know, unfortunately, in the military across the world it is a real problem. In the United States 15% of women veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan were victims of sexual violence, which indicated a massive problem in military organisations in terms of sexual harassment and violence against women. It is also against men, but predominantly against women.

I want to get a sense from the representatives of the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces of what has changed since the revelations from Dr. Cloonan? What message can we send out to women that they are absolutely safe within our Defence Forces and that when they report complaints they will be vigorously investigated?

There has been criticism in Britain that the allegations of sexual harassment or violence are being investigated within the internal investigatory structures within the British military. Is that the case in Ireland and if so are there any plans to change it?

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I call Mr. Byrne.

Mr. David Byrne:

Unfortunately it is not my area whatsoever. I deal with EU affairs and women, peace and security overseas. I will go back to the Department, find out and let the Deputy know, if that is acceptable.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Through the Chair.

Mr. David Byrne:

I cannot speak to it at all, I am afraid.

Commandant Jayne Lawlor:

I might be able to shed some light on it. Following the revelations in 2001, the Defence Forces instigated at the time what was called the independent monitoring group review. We were the first public sector body to bring in an independent outside group into the Defence Forces to examine all our policies, plans and training. They visited institutions and took a real root-and-branch look at the Defence Forces. It was chaired by a renowned academic, Dr. Eileen Doyle. Once the report on that was published there were a number of recommendations and we have implemented all those recommendations.

The IMG was then invited in a second time five years later to see if we had implemented the recommendations made and the findings were generally very positive at that stage that we had made changes. There is currently a third iteration of the IMG, whose report is due shortly.

What have we done on the ground to change it? We have what is called our administrative instruction A7. It is a very robust, anti-bullying and harassment policy. We have a number of different measures in place. We have what are called DCPs, designated contact personnel. We have those at the lowest levels. We are talking about trying to look at conflict resolution at the lowest level. We have qualified mediators; so we now have mediation services within the Defence Forces, as well as the official formal and informal complaints procedure. We have a very robust system in place. That is what we have done.

In addition everyone who comes into the Defence Forces is fully briefed on that. There is no point in having a robust system if people do not know about it and how to approach it. That is part of what we do. We have an induction handbook and lectures, and everyone is aware of the anti-bullying and harassment procedures and policies. There is zero tolerance. Dignity in the workplace charters are evident everywhere we work.

Regarding the second part of the Deputy's question about the US Army, I agree there are alarming statistics. Having worked with the Americans in Afghanistan very recently, I found that much of it comes down to the fact that the American women do not have equality; they are not allowed to be front-line soldiers. Therefore they are seen in many respects by the American male soldiers as not being equals. It is very important, therefore, that we retain that equal status, as many Western nations do. However, many militaries do not. It is something to which we should hold onto tight.

The Deputy's final question was about the British system. Allegations are dealt with internally through our complaints procedure, formal and informal. We also have the Office of Ombudsman for the Defence Forces, which is obviously an external agency. However, courts martial have taken place for inappropriate sexual behaviour. It is not something we try to sweep under the carpet. It is something that exists. They are out in the open - the courts martial are public. People have been brought to justice over any possible allegations.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The commandant's contributions today will send a very clear signal to women that they have a place in the Defence Forces. I thank the commandant for her tremendous contribution today.

Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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I wish to compliment all those who have made presentations as well as their work in different sectors, especially the work of the independent chair.

I have a question on the responsibility of the Department of Justice and Equality regarding the plan's implementation. Mr. Heylin referred to promoting awareness of and reasonable access to services. When the chair presented her report, however, Mr. Heylin indicated that we need more progress in the provision of some services for women, particular in the context of direct provision. This follows on from Deputy MacLochlainn's question. Ms Mbugua also spoke about the need for additional services and I would agree that direct provision is an appropriate context.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry to intervene but I wish to draw the Senator's attention to the fact that there is a vole in the Seanad.

Katherine Zappone (Independent)
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Let me finish this question because I do not want to hold up the committee. Given the fact that we do have direct provision, do we need extra services in addition to what is already provided in order to implement the plan effectively? As I read it, the Department of Justice and Equality is saying that its responsibility is to promote awareness of and reasonable access to services, as distinct from additional or more appropriate services.

Women who come from conflict zones may have been traumatised and violated. If their applications to reside here are unsuccessful and they have to return to those war zones, are there any guidelines governing that process? Is the fact that they are returning to where they were violated, incompatible with the implementation of the national action plan?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I wish to put my question, although I will not be there for the answers but I can check the record afterwards. I wish to commend all the parties concerned for this interesting discussion. I agree with the comments of Deputy MacLochlainn and Senator Zappone on direct provision. I contend that in years to come this State will be compensating some of the people who have been locked up in direct provision. The way in which those in direct provision are treated will be a negative reflection on us as a society today.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does the Senator have a question?

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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I am coming to it, if the Chairman would not mind.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I do.

Martin Conway (Fine Gael)
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Thank you. I commend Commandant Lawlor's presentation, which was both powerful and welcome. She spoke about job-sharing options for those with children who are going abroad. Have the Defence Forces ever considered allowing families, including children, to relocate with serving members who have to go abroad? If that option were available it would be family friendly.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Would Mr. Heylin like to respond?

Mr. Greg Heylin:

I should explain that rape crisis centres are voluntary sector organisations which are funded through a variety of State and other sources. They are provided through the voluntary sector. The main State funder is the Child and Family Agency, while it was previously done by the HSE. Rape counselling is available through those specialised services. They have been operational for a long time so they have much experience in that area.

The Reception and Integration Agency, RIA, protocol is that if someone has an experience of rape they need to report it to the Garda Síochána and that will be done, but support services will be made available through existing services. The RIA policy and guidelines were developed at the instigation of Akidwa but also of Ruhama and the domestic violence advocacy service in Sligo who were actual providers of services. Those are the ones that pressed RIA to have that service. That is the main way in which support is provided to people who have experienced rape in Ireland or, more particularly in the context of this committee, in war zones.

As regards those coming here from war zones, that is a matter for immigration policy. One of the main policies of the asylum seeking system is that one does not send someone back to a situation where they will be in danger. I am not an expert in that area and have not been fully briefed in it, but that is the fundamental principle.

Ms Helena Keleher:

My name is Helena Keleher and I work in the conflict resolution unit of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The Department also has roles under the national action plan or NAP including, for example, on Northern Ireland co-operation and the overseas development aid programme. I am wearing a different hat today, however. The conflict resolution unit is also the secretariat to the monitoring group. We are leading the drafting of the second national action plan.

I wish to pick up on Senator Zappone's point about the difference between providing services and having access to them. Best practice so far has been to consider the NAP as a living document. Therefore, if there are actions in it that are phrased in a way that is impossible to implement, they should be revised. We have revised some of the actions as a result of the mid-term progress report.

Ms Mbugua mentioned interdepartmental co-operation. In that context, another suggestion in that report was to bring in other statutory actors that had not been involved in drafting the first NAP. We are about to start the process of the second national action plan and a representative of the HSE's social inclusion unit will be sitting on the consultative group for that plan. That unit works in a lot of the areas that were raised in the discussion. We hope that aspect will be better drafted and reflected in the second national action plan.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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When is that plan due to be published?

Ms Helena Keleher:

We are hoping it will be published in January 2015. The consultative group will meet for the first time at the end of this month. We will be conducting a public consultation so everyone is welcome to contribute. We will be drafting the report in the autumn and publishing it in January 2015, to follow on from the exploration of this national action plan which is for 2014.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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We will have to have you all back again in January to discuss the plan then.

Ms Salome Mbugua:

When we talk about services it is difficult to place everything on the Department of Justice and Equality, although it makes most of the decisions concerning immigrants. It is important to mainstream services, as Mr. Heylin said, so they can deal with people who have come from war-torn countries or have experienced gender-based violence. It is equally important that the services are competent and understand the culture of immigrants and what they have gone through.

Akidwa has been calling for services in Ireland to be culturally appropriate and competent. People have to understand the cultures involved. Ireland is new to immigration issues so such services should be mainstreamed, rather than having specific services for different groups. One Department alone should not be left with so much to carry.

The role of the Department of Education and Skills is important, especially concerning female genital mutilation, FGM. To this end, we have been trying to access schools. For example, if a child has been taken out of this country for female genital mutilation to be carried out, when they come back to school and report it to the teacher that teacher may not understand because he or she has never heard about FGM. The same applies if a child is raped when visiting a war-torn country.

It is important to bring everybody together in order ultimately to achieve our goal. All the relevant services need to equip themselves and become competent in that regard.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Does Commandant Lawlor wish to comment on Senator Conway's final point?

Comdt. Jayne Lawlor:

Yes. There are certain missions where a family can accompany a serving member of the Defence Forces. They generally tend to be of more than 24 months' duration. Without meaning to sound flippant, there are other areas where one would not consider bringing a family for health and security reasons.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Of course. I call on Ms McManus to make a final comment.

Ms Liz McManus:

I thank the joint committee for giving us an opportunity to have this useful discussion. Ms Mbugua referred to people working together, which is the essence of UN Security Council Resolution 1325. We are referring here to Government Departments and, hopefully, the Department of Education and Skills may be part of the next plan. In addition, civil society organisations should be involved. We are all learning because it is a relatively new phenomenon for us, but an essential one.

What has happened today is one of the indications that we can take a certain pride in the fact that Ireland has led the way in regard to preparing a national action plan which is both outwards and inwards looking. We have included civil society organisations and are setting up a consultative group now, the chairman of which is with us. We are taking the idea of people working together very seriously.

It is worth mentioning a point which is of some concern to me, which is that our national plan can only have very limited impact in Northern Ireland. The UK national action plan, however, does not recognise Northern Ireland as an area where there was conflict. It is something we must maintain an awareness of in the future national plan.

With regard to the specific area of women coming here, there is work to be done. We all recognise that. There has been an honesty here about what needs to be done in regard to the future. I am very hopeful.

It is a great idea to invite the people who prepare the next national action plan to come back if at all possible because it is an ongoing process. We very much appreciate the committee's time.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The clerk to the committee has already taken note of that for January. We have it in the calendar already.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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In regard to what Ms McManus was saying towards the end of her contribution, perhaps we should correspond with Ms Paula Bradley, the MLA chairperson of the Assembly group that looks at this. Perhaps we might correspond with her group around the very issue which has just been raised.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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It is an interesting point. Let us reflect on it and come back to it.

Ms Liz McManus:

To inform the committee, I note that we have also made a presentation to the Good Friday Agreement committee.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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That might be more appropriate.

Ms Liz McManus:

It has taken on board the points. Certainly, Ms Paula Bradley has been a great help.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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For information, I note that the committee was presented with an Africa Day award recently for the work the members have been doing in this whole area. It is very welcome. It might be the first time an Oireachtas committee received a presentation for anything. We are very pleased.

On behalf of the committee, I thank the witnesses for their engagement on these important issues. We will certainly follow up on the points made, reflect on them and take further action as the need arises.