John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is because of the budget. Generally speaking, we have dealt with all the other stuff. As I said to Mr. O'Brien, it is a business. On all the major fronts, in my opinion, you have failed. As a representative of the shareholders, I am sure if they were all here they would probably look at Dr. McLoughlin, because he negotiates the budget in-house before it gets political on the other side, and Mr. O'Brien and consider that both of them should resign. It seems to me that this is a sort of Groundhog Day in that we deal with the same issues every single time they come before us.

We had Cathal Magee here a number of years ago who said that the HSE was not fit for purpose. We have seen the same problems being debated here today. Half the population of the country are frightened out of their lives. Individual medical card holders and their families are unable to cope with costs or a system that has failed them.

People may call for the Minister to resign, which is political on that side and is a different argument. If I was acting for my shareholders, looking at the organisation, I would say that they are not fit for purpose and should go. All of these figures and projections point to that. Not only have they not reached their targets or exceeded them, but they are also employing people at a massive amount of money. At the same time, the public are looking on with utter disgust at how the medical card process has been managed.

People who rely on medical cards are turning up at their chemists, as Deputy O'Donnell has said, and are being told at that stage that they do not have a valid medical card. During the election campaign a man stopped me in the street in Kilkenny. He ran after me when I passed his house. He was caring for somebody in there who was terminally ill. Someone rang the GP to ask if that was right, even though the GP had filled out forms and sent messages about how urgent it was. Every time an elderly or sick person is asked for evidence of their condition, they are now being charged by the GP for that letter. GPs are now turning up at the doorsteps of elected public representatives and accusing us of insisting on the letters. In fact, however, Mr. O'Brien and Dr. McLoughlin are insisting on those letters for people who are sick or dying and relying on the system for their medical cards and their medication. Nobody seems to understand the pain that is being inflicted upon them. The letters that are sent out are not helpful. So many letters go out seeking the same information.

I want to confirm something for Dr. McLoughlin and Mr. O'Brien. I have had to put in a scanning system in my own office to scan the material that goes to the HSE for these unfortunate people who are waiting. That is because when the day arrives, and it seems to be inevitable that it will arrive, that the HSE requests the information again, I can scan it again to the HSE without extra cost.