John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The HSE was almost negligent in terms of the past and compliance with sections 38 and 39.

That is why we are where we are at today. It has been a painstaking exercise that will probably yield little or nothing, apart from good governance for the future, compliance for as long as the red circle individuals exist in their employment and, thereafter, possibly a reduction in the salary to what is the norm by public service pay rates.

As regards section 39 bodies, we are not finished with either section yet, so God knows what is going to be uncovered. The CRC would never have been uncovered were it not for Deputy Ross questioning the accounts here and exposing what was eventually exposed across the charity sector. It showed the HSE had no handle on it whatsoever. I do not know what is in place now that can give us any comfort concerning section 38 and section 39 matters. We await the detailed report on both sections.

We have already discussed the Limerick issue and the cost of that, possibly just one individual, at €250,000. Mr. O'Brien says that this is posing huge difficulties across that sector in terms of the cost of filling those positions and the fact that no one was interested in the two public advertisement campaigns the HSE ran.

Then we have the cost over ten years of approximately €80 million for the accountancy reporting system. Who bears the cost of running the Department's parliamentary affairs division? Is it Dr. McLoughlin?