John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The first item on our agenda is the minutes of the meeting of 8 May. Are they agreed to? Agreed.

No. 3A is correspondence from Accounting Officers and-or Ministers. No. 3A.1 is correspondence, dated 7 May 2014, from Mr. Robert Watt, Secretary General, Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, as a follow-on from our meeting of 3 April. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The response is welcome. However, members should note that No. 2 in the response refers to the amount of debt to be transferred to Irish Water to meet wastewater service commitments when responsibility is transferred from the local authorities. This is a reference to PPP projects. Members will recall that we raised these matters with the Department some months ago and it became clear that these were very expensive projects. There was a bias within the system towards PPPs rather than the traditional delivery model. More to the point, as far as I can ascertain, there has been no scrutiny or analysis of the projects to ascertain if there was value for money. This is a serious concern. I note that the response we have received states the amount of debt that will be transferred from the local authorities to Irish Water is a complex matter and that a reply to our question is being prepared. I would have thought it would be able to give us a direct response on the liabilities in terms of wastewater service commitments at this stage of proceedings. I am anxious to ensure we will write back and insist on receiving a full response as soon as possible.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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That is fine. We will do so following the meeting. We may also send a copy of what the Deputy has said in that regard.

No. 3A.2 is correspondence, dated 12 May 2014, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, regarding the sociology department at UCC. It concerns the outcome of an investigation of certain matters relating to that department which were first raised in anonymous correspondence to the committee. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

No. 3A.3 is correspondence, dated 12 May 2014, again from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, regarding the issue at GMIT. It is an update on the examination of the allegations which has not yet been completed. The correspondence will be forwarded to Deputy Keaveney. When will the examination of the allegations be completed?

Clerk to the Committee:

I think Mr. Ó Foghlú said it was ongoing.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Can we raise the matter again with the Department and ask for a speedy response?

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes, we can.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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No. 3A.4 is correspondence, dated 13 May 2014, from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, regarding ineffective expenditure at County Wexford VEC. Ineffective expenditure, totalling €420,500, has been incurred on premises that could not be sublet. We can raise the matter today if any member is interested in it. Otherwise, we will note and publish the correspondence.

No. 3A.5 is correspondence received from various section 39 bodies regarding staff remuneration over or equal to a figure of €65,000. It arises from a review by the committee of the salaries paid in section 39 bodies that received over €5 million from the HSE. The highest salary is paid to the CEO of Enable Ireland, at €145,679. We can deal with this matter when representatives of the HSE and the Department appear before the committee on 12 June. Is that agreed? Agreed. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

No. 3B is correspondence from individuals. No. 3B.1 is correspondence from Mr. Mark Darley, former staff member of the Abbey Theatre, regarding the discontinuation of the Abbey Theatre pension scheme. The correspondence is to be noted and a copy forwarded to the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht to receive a note on the matter.

No. 3B.2 is correspondence, dated 6 May 2014, from Mr. Barry Peak, Chambers Ireland, regarding public procurement policy. We are arranging a meeting to deal with public procurement issues and must invite those who were in the Visitors Gallery the last day and representatives of Chambers Ireland. The proposal is that we invite both parties at the same time as procurement officials and representatives of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We will arrange the meeting as soon as possible. The correspondence is to be noted.

No. 3B.3 is correspondence, received on 7 May 2014, from Mr. Hugh Rance regarding further correspondence about County Cork VEC. The correspondence is to be noted. We will examine County Cork VEC when the Comptroller and Auditor General's report has been published. I understand he is producing a special report on County Cork VEC which will be placed before us shortly. The correspondence relating to complaints on this issue can be compiled and then considered in the context of the report.

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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No. 3B.4 is correspondence, received on 9 May 2014, from Eames Solicitors regarding Ms Angela Kerins. The correspondence is to be noted and published. The committee has informed Ms Kerins of the next stage in its examination of Rehab. The request from one Dáil committee to another for application of compellability is a parliamentary procedure and there is no provision whereby those who may be the subject of compellability can have an input into the process. That is our response to the letter received. The application has been submitted, as has the application in respect of the SIPTU fund. We are awaiting a response from the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Did we receive an acknowledgement that the applications had been received.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we received an acknowledgement.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Do we know how long it will take to deal with the applications?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We have no idea. As we heard the last day, the committee is likely to seek outside legal advice on the application relevant to the examination of section 39 companies. We must await the result of that advice and the committee's meeting before we can continue. Unfortunately, therefore, there is no timeframe.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I am concerned that it will take the same length of time as the previous case.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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No, the problem the last time was related to the Act.

There were protocols and monitoring to be put in place for those appearing before committees. All of that has been agreed by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and that committee is now ready to receive applications and deal with them. I expect the legal advice should not take long and that we should know, perhaps, before the summer recess.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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That is some months away and legal advice should not take that long. I do not detect a-----

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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For this House, that would be an achievement.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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It would be extraordinary. I do not detect any sense of urgency about anything that happens at the CPP. We should watch it carefully.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We can reflect that to them in writing, indicate that as far as our work is concerned both applications are urgent and ask them to give both applications priority.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Can we do that?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The priority is that there are only two applications.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Priority for the CPP could mean September. Perhaps we could get it onto that committee's May agenda.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will write to them in that respect.

Next is correspondence from Dr. Mark Harrold re misuse of funds at St. Michael's House. This is to be noted and forwarded to the HSE for investigation and a note on the matters raised. We have already agreed that St. Michael's House will be one of the section 38 bodies that we will call in for examination. We must set dates for all of them. Within the next week we will compile a work programme containing dates for the various hearings to be arranged. We will put that before the committee when we come back.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I presume we are publishing the letter from Dr. Mark Harrold, clinical psychologist. Is that the case?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. It will be noted and published.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have read the correspondence and the allegations are serious from the point of view of the spending of public moneys and in terms of the treatment of this individual as well. I presume the committee will be in correspondence with Dr. Harrold to advise him of the fact that this has been forwarded to the HSE and that representatives of St. Michael's House will be coming before the committee at some stage.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The clerk usually acknowledges these letters. In the context of this one, he can respond-----

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It would be important to set out the plan of action.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Next is correspondence dated from representatives of Comeraghs Against Pylons, County Waterford re waste of taxpayers' money by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources and EirGrid. This is to be noted and a copy forward to the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for a note on the issues raised. Again, this should be published. We are noting it but the group has raised serious concerns about taxpayers' money. It is an urgent matter and we should seek a comprehensive response to it as soon as possible from the Department.

Next is correspondence relevant to today's meeting. We have correspondence received on 8 May 2014 from the Department of Education and Skills re briefing materials. This is to be noted and published. No. 3C.2 is correspondence re 13 May 2014 from the Department of Education and Skills containing opening statements. This is to be noted and published.

No. 4 is reports and statements received. These include statements from FÁS, the Credit Institutions Resolution Fund and Waterways Ireland. The above accounts are to be noted and we will set a date to examine the Credit Institutions Resolution Fund in the work programme before the summer break. Our work programme is on the screen. We are not sitting next week.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The NAMA report will be published next Tuesday or thereabouts. That is a special report and we will deal with it on 29 May. We have to visit NAMA. Can we do so prior to that?

Clerk to the Committee:

There might be a difficulty but I will try.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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We will follow up on that meeting. The date is 12 June for the meeting with the Comptroller and Auditor General regarding health, Health Service Executive budget management and so on. We may have to hold some extra meetings because we have to bring in all of the agencies that we have agreed to bring in and follow up on the other issues. We will set out these in the coming week and set out the work programme to identify clearly the dates and times of the meetings in order that members will know our agenda before the break.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Is the NAMA report being published this coming Tuesday?

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

Yes, as I understand it.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I wish to follow on, Chairman, from what you said on the various agencies. It is important that the Committee of Public Accounts is absolutely consistent in terms of dealing with the various organisations. I welcome the fact that we will do an overall comprehensive review to deal with all agencies and their handling of the public purse.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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In the course of next week we will set out the dates so that we are aware of them.

Do any members wish to raise anything under any other business? No. I congratulate the members from the Committee of Public Accounts who are taking part in the banking inquiry. I wish Deputy O'Donnell and Deputy Murphy well. They have good experience of the background to the banking issue. The bank stabilisation report completed by the committee will serve that committee in its purpose. I wish you well on it.

I congratulate Deputy Deasy on another Deasy, the new arrival.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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An Deasy beag.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I imagine the Taoiseach will be delighted with that news.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I see, Chairman, that you have had your Weetabix this morning.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The agenda for Thursday, 29 May 2014 will deal with the forthcoming special report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I wish to make a point on the banking inquiry. This committee has done a significant amount of work, especially with the report produced. That has played a significant role in terms of the framework for the banking inquiry. I wish to acknowledge the great work done by the Committee of Public Accounts under your stewardship, Chairman.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, Deputy O'Donnell.