Mr. Seán Cottrell:

So there are pros and cons there.

On the role of boards of management overall, we need to have a root-and-branch review of the governance structure, which has been there since 1975. The role of the single manager, typically the parish priest or vicar, was expanded into an eight-person role with representative functions. However, five of those eight people have no named function on the board. We believe that a member of a school board of management should have at least one meaningful responsibility of some sort, which does not arise unless they volunteer. It is not about their abilities - they are capable. However, school life and school business have moved on so much that it is very hard for people to contribute unless they are in the business.

On project management, buildings and the devolved grant, that is a major issue. It seems like a wonderful benefit to be given the money and told to build a building with it. I know of a principal whose school got a devolved grant and instead of putting in two prefabs, he built two permanent classrooms. When the Department officials came they were able to tick the box that said "no prefabs". The principal was able to use the money because he was entrepreneurial and that was his nature. However, most principals do not want to know the first thing about building - that is not why they became principals. There should be a fee for project management. It is ridiculous that principals spend July and August most summers ringing tradesmen and chasing up builders. It is no way to do business.

I am not sure if I picked up the point correctly about people becoming principals at a younger age. As outlined in the report, many principals are finding it very difficult in their first year. Sometimes there is resistance to their appointment - there may be disgruntled candidates. Principals need considerable care and support. A huge amount of our energy goes into supporting newly appointed principals with online programmes and face-to-face programmes. As Mr. Ward pointed out, it is an area we must get right because it is a very delicate time for a person. If a principal makes fundamental mistakes in his or her first year it is very hard to recover. Dealing with boards of management, parents' associations and staff is really important.

Someone suggested that it is not the children, but the staff. Any organisation, private, public or voluntary will identify the management of people as the single biggest issue. Schools do not make or sell anything, so it is all about interaction and eventually somebody will annoy somebody else. We are focusing much of our time in terms of CPD on the area of personal development and conflict management. Interpersonal skills are what make it for a principal. Professional development on its own is not enough and needs to be nurtured further.

I could not agree more with the point about teaching leadership to undergraduates in the colleges of education. In our centre for leadership that we are working on, we are talking about devising programmes for teacher leadership in second level schools and in primary schools because leadership as a concept and a function applies to even children at play through the whole business of teamwork and so forth. Leadership is not a fuddy-duddy concept that people discuss in rooms such as this one, but is a very real thing. Children are very responsive and can really do great things when they understand more about leadership.