Mr. Robert Watt:

We can measure output or outcomes as well as inputs. For example, there is the third level sector.

We know the number of students going through every year and we know how much is being allocated in terms of lecture hours or inputs. We know the costs to the Exchequer versus what we are getting out of it in terms of pure volume. There is obviously a quality issue which is a matter for third level.

If one looks at the health system, the pages we have are on the following: the number of people who work in the system; the cost of the system, which has come down; and the increase in activity, where one can see the number of procedures, operations and the number of people who were seen. Massive increases in productivity have taken place over the last three or four years. The Minister, Deputy James Reilly, has mentioned this on various occasions at various committees. We measure whenever we can. The Deputy can also see the different measures for the Garda, such as the reductions in numbers and the various measures of its performance.

Across the system one can see that we have downsized very dramatically, yet we are providing more services and dealing with more people all the time. In the social welfare area, since 2008 and 2009 several hundred thousand more people have turned up seeking support, be it income or job support, but there has not been a dramatic increase in that Department's administrative budget or the numbers. Across the measurement of outputs or outcomes, when one looks at the inputs one can see gains in productivity. Those gains have been facilitated by necessity, that we just do not have the money, so people have got on with just delivering more even though they do not have more resources. There are more hours, changes in rosters and changes in work practices. The changes in the rosters for the Garda, for example, mean there are more gardaí rostered on Thursday, Friday and Saturday when they are needed on the streets compared to the position in the past. That is an enormous change. Some figures show there is a 20% to 25% increase in the number of gardaí visible on the streets on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Changes such as that are having a big impact. We are working as much we can with colleagues to see how much further we can go.

We challenge the notion that they have been imposed on the system. Okay, there has been a sense of imposition inasmuch as we have reduced the numbers of people, so those who remain have had to do more. There have been changes in work rosters, more hours and changes in sick leave, annual leave and so forth. Ultimately, there were formal negotiations and we ultimately got agreement with the 27 unions through the Haddington Road agreement. Whether they were imposed or negotiated to a happy conclusion depends on how one looks at these things.