Mr. Pearse Kelly:

That would have been done at Johnstown Castle. While Professor Boyle outlined the position regarding 16-month and 19-month bull beef, the trials carried out at Johnstown Castle in 2010 and 2011 involved bull beef as young as under eight months old. Trials were carried out in respect of the latter and on beef under 12 months old, which is rosé or red veal. Again, both of those systems are what we would describe as almost landless systems. One does not need land for them in that the animals are not put out to grass at all. They remain indoors from birth through to slaughter and they are fed 100% on meal. At that point and in the context of the nitrates directive, one is down to requiring somewhere to which one can export the slurry. Again, these animals are hugely sensitive in the context of calf price, meal price and beef price. In the past a premium would have been paid for red veal-type animals but as the overall average price of beef rose in recent years, the price advantage relating to them has almost disappeared. As a result, the system has come under serious pressure.

I would not say it is non-existent but-----