Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Apologies have been received from Deputy Frank Feighan, Senator Mary White, Ms Naomi Long, MP, Mr. Alasdair McDonnell, MP, and Mr. Mark Durkan, MP.

Members know the drill with mobile telephones.

The Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Costello, is present to discuss the Department's view on foreign policy and external relations. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade originally intended to be here but unfortunately he cannot attend. However, we are delighted that the Minister of State is present and his portfolio encapsulates a broad range of issues. The North-South element is of particular interest to members. The Minister of State is most welcome and we look forward to his presentation.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am grateful to the committee for the invitation and to the Chairman for his welcome. The Tánaiste regrets that he could not be here to discuss the review of foreign policy with the committee and he asked me to convey to the Chairman and members his regrets and his assurance that it is his intention to meet the committee on an early mutually convenient date to discuss recent developments in Northern Ireland and North-South issues.
I welcome the opportunity to address the committee on the review of foreign policy and external relations, which was launched by the Tánaiste on 8 October 2013. The purpose of the review is to provide an updated statement of Ireland’s foreign policy and external relations, and to identify a series of recommendations for its conduct. Our foreign policy and external relations are fundamental aspects of Government. They are the means by which we promote our values and pursue our interests abroad. Through it, we pursue Ireland’s economic prosperity and promote peace and security both at home and in the wider world. Our foreign policy is also a statement of who we are as a people, and how we wish ourselves to be seen by the outside world.
Following our successful EU Presidency last year, the chairmanship of the OSCE in 2012, and our election to the UN Human Rights Council, we have an opportunity to reflect on the future direction of our foreign policy, the values and interests we seek to promote through it, and how it contributes to achieving Government objectives. The vital work of restoring our international reputation and promoting our economic recovery are priorities for the Government. The international leadership roles we have undertaken as a country have done much to achieve this goal. Our embassies and other diplomatic and consular offices around the world are making a vital contribution. They are working hard to realise our goals - presenting the best case for Ireland, influencing decisions that affect us, working with the State agencies and Irish business in promoting our trade, tourism, education and investment, in addition to providing a full range of services to our citizens abroad, sometimes in difficult and tragic circumstances.
As we look to the future, and having exited the EU-IMF programme, it is timely to reflect on the future direction of our foreign policy. The review will consider a broad range of issues reflecting the breadth of our external engagement: how we set our external priorities; how we engage as an EU member state; how we contribute to economic recovery and growth through promoting our trade, tourism and investment; the pursuit of peace and reconciliation on the island of Ireland; the services we provide to our citizens abroad and our relationship with the Irish diaspora; the contribution of our international development policy; and how we ensure Ireland is a respected international actor. These are all important issues, as are other aspects of our foreign policy which the review will consider.
Northern Ireland is not a foreign policy issueper sebut one with distinct foreign policy aspects that touches closely on a broad range of domestic policies and on the objective of national reconciliation. In this regard, the review will look at a number of aspects of the work of the Department in the area. Our work with regard to Northern Ireland operates at three levels. First, as part of a whole of Government approach, we support an all-island policy across sectoral areas. Second, as guarantors of the agreements, we are responsible for overseeing the implementation of and maintaining support for the principles, values, institutions and other bodies envisaged in those international agreements. Third, we are responsible for the articulation of Northern Ireland interests and of our Northern Ireland policy to other governments, particularly the US Administration and our EU partners.
North-South co-operation is promoted through the North South Ministerial Council in Armagh, through other bilateral ministerial and official engagement and through engagement with the wider business and civil community. It is a priority to complete the review of North-South co-operation. Part 1 of the review, which deals with the value for money of the North-South bodies, is essentially complete and attention has turned to the forward looking elements of the review. In this respect, Ministers on the North South Ministerial Council are considering their priorities in their respective areas of co-operation with a particular focus on efforts that will help economic recovery, job creation and the best use of public funds and the most effective delivery of services to those on the island.
The Good Friday Agreement has contributed to creating a sustainable peace and provides the mechanism to develop a strong all-island economy by presenting opportunities for beneficial co-operation on these islands. The St. Andrews Agreement review provides a further mechanism to explore specific areas, including growing exports, improving and upgrading of services, job creation, higher and further education and co-operating to improve access to international funding such as the EU’s Horizon 2020 programme which focuses on research and development and innovation.
The Government is firmly committed to supporting reconciliation.We progress this in a number of ways. First, there are some areas and principles of the agreements which underpin the peace process which have not as yet been implemented fully. The Government is committed to the full implementation of all aspects of the agreements as the best framework for reconciliation. Second, the Government takes seriously the need to deal sensitively with the legacy of the past including meeting the needs of victims. It is clear that the legacy of the past continues to have a corrosive and disruptive effect on politics and community relations in Northern Ireland. This informs our support for the ongoing political talks in Northern Ireland. The Tánaiste has made clear the Government’s commitment to playing an active and constructive role in dealing with the past and in encouraging agreement on a new architecture for dealing with the past to be agreed by the Northern Ireland Executive parties. Third, my Department through its reconciliation and anti-sectarianism fund supports cross-community and cross-Border projects. These funds work with a broad range of partners with the aim of challenging sectarianism and promoting respect and reconciliation across traditions in Northern Ireland, between North and South and between Britain and Ireland. A new strategy for the funds is being prepared and will be launched in 2014. The purpose of this strategy is to outline priorities for the funds in the next three years and a new funding framework to match these priorities, to ensure the funds remain relevant, effective and efficient in the coming years.
The decade of centenary commemorations, already under way, has the potential to present risks to the peace process by enhancing division and igniting sectarianism. However, it also has the potential to enrich narratives and to provide opportunities for acknowledgement and reconciliation. The Department’s approach is guided by the principles of historical accuracy, mutual respect, tolerance and inclusivity. The reconciliation fund provides support for a number of commemorative projects as part of its regular funding of community and voluntary groups. In total, €116,000 was awarded by the reconciliation fund for expressly commemorations related projects in 2013. Some political parties have made submissions setting out their thinking on all aspects of the review, including those related to the Good Friday Agreement. I thank them for these contributions, which will be examined carefully in terms of preparing the outcome of the review.
I refer to how the review is being taken forward. Given the wide-ranging nature of our foreign policy and external relations, it is important we consult widely. The Department is facilitating a broad-based consultation process, involving all Departments, State agencies, academics and experts, business organisations, interested stakeholders and civil society. A public consultation exercise has produced a wide range of views and submissions, reflecting the breadth and depth of our foreign policy. We will take these submissions into account as we proceed with the review. It is important the Oireachtas should make its contribution to the review, as it does to the process of shaping and overseeing our foreign policy, through the work of this and other committees on an ongoing basis.

The Tánaiste has discussed the review with the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and the Minister of State, Deputy Donohoe, has addressed the Joint Committee on European Union Affairs. Issues raised here today, as well as at these other meetings, will constitute an important input to the review process. We also welcome written inputs from this committee and from individual Members of the Oireachtas.

The review will also take account of a number of recently concluded or ongoing review processes, including the Government's new policy for international development, One World, One Future, adopted in May 2013; the White Paper on Defence currently being prepared by the Minister for Defence; the review of the Government's trade, tourism and investment strategy, Trading and Investing in a Smart Economy; and the review of our diaspora engagement.

This is a timely and important review. Its outcome, scheduled for the second quarter of this year, will be a policy document setting out the core objectives of Ireland's foreign policy and the measures and instruments required to secure their delivery. I look forward to today's discussion, to hearing the views of members, and to receiving further input in due course. With the committee's agreement, I do not propose to respond in detail to policy suggestions at this time. However, I will take careful note of all proposals, as will the officials with me today, and these will be fully taken into account when preparing the outcome of the review.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State. I welcome that there will be a new strategy for funding, whether through the anti-sectarianism fund or other supports for cross-Border projects. The committee gets representations from many groups seeking funding. We welcome this review and will have an invaluable input into it. Even in assessing funding and the efficiency of funding and especially in light of much of the outreach work we are doing in Northern Ireland, there are concerns about sustainability of projects with a lifespan of two to three years after which the funding runs out and they are left hanging. It is something of which the committee is very conscious. We certainly welcome that a new mechanism for funding will be announced in 2014 and no doubt the members of the committee would like to have an input into that process. While we appreciate the Minister of State has said he will not give feedback on suggestions today, one hopes they will be taken as formal observations.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I will break my rule straight away. We can certainly brief the committee on the review of funding and seek its input into that. That can be done at a future date. I will come in again and brief the committee on that.

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister of State's statement. I will be very brief because I already had the opportunity to contribute at the meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade which the Tánaiste attended and through parliamentary questions, as the Minister of State knows.
I refer to the need to include in our policy the development of an all-Ireland framework. The cross-Border bodies that were established following the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 have been successful. I believe their potential has not yet been maximised. Of course there are other areas where we should be developing a framework for new all-Ireland bodies. We need to be fairly vigorous in that respect. In developing an all-Ireland framework, we need to be very conscious of the importance of the message sent out to communities, North and South, where there are major infrastructural projects.
It is very regrettable that the Narrow Water Bridge project has not progressed. Substantial funding was committed by the European Union and there was a shortfall of a few million euro which should have been made up by the Northern Ireland Executive and by the Government here because it is a project that would be very beneficial for the east coast counties of Louth and Down and stretching to the broader region, including into my and Deputy Conlan's constituency, where we need more visitors to the region. In the overall context of public funding, it is a relatively small amount and it would be a shame if that project were lost.
In much more difficult economic and political circumstances, the Government in 1989 was able to progress the restoration of the Ballyconnell-Ballinamore canal, which is now the Shannon-Erne waterway. It involved an investment of £30 million - I cannot remember if it was punts or sterling. At that time in 1989 and 1990 the relationships between North and South and between east and west were far removed from what they are today. The Government at the time was determined to bring that project to fruition, in which it succeeded. It has been a major catalyst for tourism development in Fermanagh, Cavan and Leitrim.
It would send out a strong message to communities on both sides of the Border if the Narrow Water Bridge project was to be advanced and it would cost a relatively small amount of money. I know there are competing demands for public expenditure. However, it is a project where the European funding should not be lost.
The Chairman, other members of the committee and I were in Derry and Donegal last Thursday night and Friday. We heard about the issue of the A5 road from representatives from the northern side of the Border and Donegal. They are very anxious for that project to be advanced.
There are a number of outstanding commitments under the Good Friday Agreement. The policy document, when it is finalised, should send a very strong message about the re-establishment of the civic forum, provided for under the Good Friday Agreement. It is also necessary to bring forward the bill of rights and Acht na Gaeilge. Those are all issues that the community, particularly the Nationalist community, is anxious to have addressed as quickly as possible.
We know there has been substantial progress in the area of policing. There was progress up to the past 13 or 14 months with regard to parades. According to a report in the Irish Newsalmost 200 sensitive parades were permitted last year despite failure to fill out forms correctly. It is not acceptable that the Parades Commission would allow incomplete applications to be processed, finalised and approved. There were only two parades in 2012 where the organisers were not properly identified. In 2013 that had risen to 170. The parades issue did significant damage to the economy of Belfast and beyond particularly around Christmas 2012 and into the early part of 2013. We do not want parades to cause the issues they do for small communities where there is thuggery and intimidation of communities through the misbehaviour of a number of people taking part in those parades which are not properly organised and the organisers take no responsibility for organising them properly.
Under the Haass proposals there are proposals in that regard. I welcome that the Alliance Party, the SDLP and Sinn Féin have all worked hard to try to bring those Haass proposals to a final conclusion. One of the proposals was that there should be no grey area around parading and there must be a code of conduct. In its statements the SDLP has been very strong on the need for a proper code of conduct so that people organising the parades as well as those participating know their responsibilities to the wider community.
Unfortunately, during Question Time last week we did not reach an oral question on immigration reform in the United States. Coming up to St. Patrick's Day, we all want this issue advanced and brought to a successful conclusion. Unfortunately, the utterances from some senior Congressmen in the United States were not as positive over recent months as they have been in the past. I hope Government representatives during their visits to the United States will use every opportunity to hammer home that message again. I know it has been done continually in the past, but it needs to be given the extra impetus.

The enactment of legislation by the Ugandan Government is disgraceful and reprehensible. I do not know if the Minister of State had an opportunity to make a statement on it and I did not get a chance to read any such statement. We cannot penalise the very poor people we are trying to support through Irish Aid initiatives but at the same time a very clear message must go to the Ugandan Government that the action is reprehensible. As a civilised country we must send our message of complete opposition to that very severe legislation, which should be unacceptable in any civilised society.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Deputy's comments regarding immigration reform in the United States. There is a renewed focus today with a certain airline proposing that people could get to the United States for €10 in a number of years.

Seán Conlan (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State indicated the Government's strong commitment to an all-Ireland economy and its support of reconciliation. The Government is committed to implementing all aspects of the Good Friday Agreement and Deputy Smith has correctly mentioned the big ticket items in developing an all-Ireland economy. In the long run these would include the Narrow Water Bridge, the Ulster Canal, the A5 road and various other projects that are symbolic of development.

As a Government in Ireland, we are falling down in doing the basic stuff right in this regard. There is no point building a running track if we do not have running shoes. We have not developed proper cross-Border health care services, for example. We are trying to achieve the goal and although there is much discussion, it has not yet been reached despite the time elapsed since the peace process began. This should not be a political matter and we should reach that goal to benefit communities along the Border which are at a loss because neither Government is examining the issue seriously enough and moving it forward.

Deputy Smith mentioned big ticket items but what about the local road infrastructure that has not been developed over 20 years? It is crazy that after 20 years in a peace process we still do not have a decent road between Armagh and Monaghan. There is no push North or South for that to happen, and there is no link between county councils and the roads service in Northern Ireland to address the issue. In PEACE I there was a basic movement to reopen Border roads but rather than examining big ticket items, perhaps we should seek to develop local road infrastructure, which can lead local businesses to develop and thrive. That has not been done. The straight road between Newry and Enniskillen goes through Monaghan town but the road has not been developed in 20 years. I do not see any push from Departments in the South to do anything about that. The Minister of State referred to the development of an all-Ireland policy and as part of that we must consider the basic areas that have been totally neglected.

There is a real issue for hauliers in the Republic of Ireland because of transport networks. The UK is to introduce a system of taxation for foreign vehicles and there will be a major effect for Donegal hauliers or people from the Republic bringing goods and services into the area if a tariff must be paid going through Tyrone. If I want to go to Cavan or Dundalk from Monaghan, I must go through Fermanagh or Armagh, so there should be a derogation applying to these routes to ensure hauliers are not penalised when taking products from one county to the next.

These are fundamental issues to be addressed by this Government with the UK Government to ensure there can be economic benefits for people living along the Border. We must ensure this peace process does not pass us by or be seen as a Dublin or Belfast issue rather than something for the people along the Border. The issue must be addressed by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and others. That should happen sooner rather than later. If we can deal effectively with these issues now rather than leaving them on the long finger because we are concerned with big ticket items, we would do more to advance and develop reconciliation along the Border. When people trade and can see economic benefit from the political process, they will buy into it completely. Along the Border we must see tangible benefits from the process, so the basics must be considered before we move to major projects.

Ms Michelle Gildernew:

I welcome the Minister of State. When Deputy Smith contributed he stated he would be brief as there were a number of areas and forums in which he could engage. I apologise for not being as brief as we do not have the engagement and forums like this to discuss issues and what we have is not what I would like it to be. I have been an MP for over ten years and my relationship with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has been best when I have had the mobile telephone numbers of senior officials to whom I can speak, particularly at the weekends and evenings, when there are events in my constituency that require intervention or a contribution from the Department. Much work needs to be done with Northern representatives to develop relationships and have a point of contact. I have often been frustrated when constituents find themselves in difficulty in Australia or America, for example, but where I have insufficient means of contact with authorities. I would like to see us considering that process and how we can engage best. Is there a point of contact for Northern representatives and can we speak to somebody to resolve such issues expediently?

There are outstanding issues and my committee colleagues have listed a number of them. From a constituency perspective, I am interested in the road to Sligo, the Ulster Canal and the A5 road. I do not disagree with the comments of Deputies Smith and Conlan and certain issues must be moved forward for the development of all our people in the northern part of the island, regardless of the side of the Border on which people live.

Like Deputy Conlan, I can get frustrated as there is much potential for cross-Border work. The opportunities are significant in the health area. My party colleague, Ms Bairbre de Brún, MLA, as Health Minister implemented much work in the North-South process. The health items on the clár of the North-South Ministerial Council may look impressive but there is much more that can and should be done. It is a fundamental issue along Border counties and we must help to sustain a quality health service in the North of Ireland.

A major conference was organised by the Centre for Cross-Border Studies a couple of weeks ago which examined a proposed Border development zone that would increase investment in the region, allowing for greater flexibility and work for the communities along both sides of the Border. Is consideration being given to that and how does the Irish Government expect to view that proposal? I also agree with Deputy Conlan's comments regarding the heavy goods vehicle levy, which is absolutely ridiculous. It is a bit like the quarry tax as Westminster is introducing levies intended primarily for England and Wales, with Scotland tagged on, and we are not featured at all. As a republican, I am not too concerned about that but there is an impact on businesses in the North. The levy will create huge difficulties for logistics companies on the island. I know a levy for the South has also been considered but if there are two separate levies, there should be a derogation for trade North and South.

Deputy Smith mentioned the bill of rights and I have written to the British Government about that. I am very concerned that 15 years after the Good Friday Agreement, a bill of rights has not been progressed. There is also the issue of the undocumented. I attended a launch in Donegal at the weekend where this was raised but the issue is frequently aired. Families are separated because a person is living, working and having a family in America but cannot return for a funeral, wedding or to maintain family relationships. That is tragic. We all probably have relations effectively trapped abroad because they cannot get home so there is a real human rights issue involved.

I would like to hear more about reconciliation funding. I am not sure if the Minister of State is aware of the work of Fermanagh Trust on shared education. I do not want to go on too long but there is a school in Fermanagh that a few years ago saw protests about having a Catholic dinner lady. As a result of shared education it is now working co-operatively with the local Catholic school.

There have been major changes in that regard. Much more can be done. This work is not mainstream-funded from either side of the Border. It is funded through bodies like Atlantic Philanthropies. We are lobbying for that to continue.

Shared education is just one aspect of reconciliation. We are missing a trick here. We have a chance to develop educational opportunities across the Border. A model is being developed in west Fermanagh, Donegal and Leitrim, where schools are working more co-operatively across the Border. St. Mary's High School in Brollagh, which is talking to schools in Ballyshannon and Rossinver, is a case in point. We are still a little frustrated. There are opportunities in this area. If we mess about for another year or two, we might find that schools have closed and the opportunity has gone. I ask the members of the committee to speak to their colleagues in the education sector to see what more can be done to develop proper cross-Border work. A great deal can be done.

We want to engage with the committee on many issues. For example, people who are resident in the North have to transit through Dublin. I find it frustrating when I do not know where to go or to whom to talk about these issues. I would appreciate it if this could be considered. This is the only forum I have for discussions with the likes of the members of this committee. I would love to be in the Chamber across the way. We need to develop relationships and make sure we are working on behalf of all the people of the island in a way that is pragmatic, sensible, that saves money and gets the best quality results in areas like health, education and the economy. I thank the joint committee. I apologise for speaking for so long. I have to say I am not usually so long-winded. I had a lot to get off my chest.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Ms Gildernew covered a good deal of ground. She even strayed into south Donegal. As I am conscious that the Minister of State is facing time constraints, I ask members to be brief.

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for his presentation. A number of aspects of it stand out. He spoke about economic sustainability. Obviously, an alarming number of young people in the Six Counties and in the Twenty-six Counties are unemployed. If people can work together for the common good as part of an all-Ireland economy, that will play a central part in building peace and reconciliation and developing long-term peace.

As both Governments are co-guarantors of the Good Friday Agreement, they are obliged to deliver agreement on issues like the past, parades and flags, and the Haass report. How do they propose to proceed, given that the efforts of Dr. Haass have not been successful to date? It must be stressed that at least 90% of the people on the island of Ireland were very supportive of his efforts to try to reach agreement. Clearly, his initiative was resisted by sections of the Unionist parties. How does the Government hope to bring about a successful conclusion to this process?

Dealing with the past, with the legacies of the conflict, is a big part of reconciliation. As an island, we have done very well to get an acceptable police force in the Six Counties. That seemed to be impossible at one stage but was achieved by democratising the workings of the entire police system and establishing various policing boards and authorities. Perhaps this jurisdiction could learn from the work that has been done in the North with regard to accountability. I refer to the work of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland, for example. We do not want to lose any of this. Reconciliation cannot come about unless people are able to deal with the past. The future can be shaped as a consequence of dealing with the past. It does not appear that serious efforts are being made to bring about that.

The Minister of State referred to "creating a sustainable peace and [providing] the mechanism to develop a strong all-island economy". How does he hope to do that? What role will the Irish Government play in that regard? I understand that a number of initiatives which were taking place did not stand the test of time. They were successful in the short term but they were not followed up. When cross-Border economic initiatives are being pursued, it is essential for them to be sustainable. How does the Government hope to bring about that sustainability?

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Costello. I will not delay the meeting. Deputations have to come to this forum to discuss issues like the development of the A5 and the construction of Narrow Water Bridge. The failure to complete the Narrow Water Bridge project is devastating. There was a feeling in every party that it would be done. It was seen as a new dawn for tourism in the area in question. It was also relevant to North-South relations. I certainly thought it should be completed. If there was a shortfall that could have been addressed by the two Governments, as some of my colleagues have suggested, I think it is something we should revisit in the short term.

It is imperative that we revisit the funding of the various organisations in the North to determine what is the best format for the provision of funding. I have found during visits with this committee and with the Labour Party that these initiatives form the basis for keeping many communities together. I appreciate that some people raise questions about the projects that are getting funding. Ultimately, the development of communications and contacts between North and South is all about generating positivity in the communities and ensuring that positivity is used to make both sides of the Border better places in which to live.

The SDLP made a presentation to us regarding the Civic Forum for Northern Ireland. It was supported by Sinn Féin. This is another example of an important initiative, which involved people of all parties and none, meeting a dead end. I suggest that the forum could be used by people from all communities in Northern Ireland who are interested in improving their facilities. It should be reconsidered by the North-South groups, perhaps on foot of ministerial intervention.

I would like to speak about the Haass proposals. We met those involved. It seemed that good progress was going to be made, but it suddenly transpired at the last hurdle that this was not possible. It appears that the leaders of all the political parties are still working on this. I hope that will continue to the point where an attempt can be made to ascertain whether Dr. Haass is prepared to come back for a final meeting with all the groups. Now that there is some positivity about this matter, we should not lose the opportunity to make progress. We should ask all the parties to continue their work in this regard.

Deputy Ferris spoke about the economy, which is the life blood of people on both sides of the Border. We must continue to develop all aspects of the economy. I have said on many occasions that the extent of educational opportunity in some parts of the North is very poor. Many people have significant concerns about what is available to the Unionist or Protestant community. Many of the people from that community who obtain educational honours at third level do not seem to believe in their own economy or their own community.

The minute they get the degree, they are gone so it is another area at which we must look and where we must develop a commonality to ensure we get the best for our buck. Again, I return to Narrow Water Bridge. This would be a flagship project in respect of what we are trying to do in this committee and with all the contacts we have with various groups in Northern Ireland. The one thing one can say is that every time we have gone to Northern Ireland, the welcome in all the different communities has been unbelievable, irrespective of which group it is. The part that I really sat up and looked at was the fact that no question was barred and nobody was unable to put their point. Everything was addressed to the best of their and our ability. That was certainly there. That is something our committee has been doing and the Chairman has certainly led that in respect of all the various meetings we are having. The other parties are doing the same. We must keep at it. I still believe that if we have a number of flagships, be they in health, transport or infrastructure, we should look at them and try to build upon them because they are important in ensuring that hope is there for people who in some instances do not have much hope and that they can see that we will help them as much as they can help themselves.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome the Minister of State and his officials. There are a number of issues. Looking at the television, I know what they are talking about in respect of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission, policing and so on. When the Good Friday Agreement came about, it was supposed to be something that was not just set in stone, but something organic that would grow and that we would learn from best practice. I know there are proposals relating to looking at changes relating to GSOC and so on. This controversy has highlighted the fact that there are inadequacies on both sides of the Border in respect of the structures that are there. We can learn from each other. In particular, former ombudsmen from Northern Ireland have spoken about the powers of investigation and so on. We have heard from the Victims' Commissioner who not only spoke about the difficulties she experienced in dealing with the past, but about the difficulties experienced by the victims themselves. Victims from the South told us that in order to move their cases forward, they had to go through the Victims' Commissioner in Northern Ireland. They are also saying that there was nothing similar to the historical inquiries team and no mechanism for families to move that on. If we are looking at this package, we need to look at what is working and what is not working in both jurisdictions. Those were the original ideas we had in respect of the Good Friday Agreement and how it would evolve.

I welcome the news regarding the economy. We try to sell it and agriculture on an all-Ireland basis. There are ways in which we can develop that and we should go through that. People have talked about the undocumented Irish. There was a delegation from the Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade. At that time, there was also interest from some Unionists and Nationalists in Northern Ireland. The undocumented Irish is an all-Ireland problem. One is not asked whether one is from the North or the South. Perhaps that is another area for co-operation. We will probably get one more bite af this and it would be helpful. The Unionists would have some insight into those from a Scots Unionist background in respect of talking to some of those Congressmen and Senators, which might be helpful.

The HGV issue was mentioned. An anomaly has arisen recently in respect of the new licensing system. I do not know if it has come across the Minister of State's desk and I do not expect an answer but he might put it in the mix. If someone is born in Northern Ireland, they have two choices. They can put down that they were born in the United Kingdom, which many Nationalists would have difficulties with. The other option is to put down that they were born in Northern Ireland. There is no option of stating that they were born in Ireland. It may seem to be a silly thing but families I know who had to leave Northern Ireland because of sectarianism and difficulties do not see themselves as being from Northern Ireland or the UK. They see themselves as Irish. Again, the Good Friday Agreement was to look at that. It is an anomaly that perhaps came out of the new regulations relating to border controls and might have come from the EU but I am asking if the Government can look at that.

In respect of funding for advocacy groups for victims, we are familiar with Justice for the Forgotten. Both of us have attended meetings over the meetings. The anomaly relating to whether one is from the Border region or Belfast could be looked at. When we were developing this, I do not think this anomaly was the way things were going to develop. A total of 17 people have been classified as disappeared. Again, if we are talking in terms of anomalies and disparities in the system, one of those disappeared, Seamus Ruddy, was believed to be disappeared in France. Again, his family were treated differently from other families in respect of supports. That would shock many people and is something that possibly the two Governments could look at. I know there was a request for funding from the Ball and Parry families but, again, it was outside the parameters of that funding. I do not think any of those groups which are working for peace and reconciliation but are also looking to work with victims' groups should be left out of the equation.

People have spoken about the Narrow Water Bridge. The Tánaiste appeared before the Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade which asked him about the consultative forum. He indicated that some energy would be put in to try to get agreement. What steps are being taken by the Irish and British Governments to convene that forum?

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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We will take Senator Moran followed by Deputy Feighan.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I apologise for being late. I was at another meeting. I also want to add my voice to the disappointment felt over Narrow Water Bridge. As somebody who comes from the area, it was certainly something the people of Louth, Armagh and the surrounding areas looked forward to for years. We thought we had it within our grasp. We talk about the possibilities of revisiting it. The debacle over funding is a significant issue. Are there plans to revisit it and, if so, what are they? Could the Minister of State expand on that?

I have raised the issue of penalty points North and South here a couple of times. I was disappointed on Sunday to hear the announcement that the plans to ensure that people who received penalty points either side of the Border would carry them into their own jurisdiction have been halted. Could the Minister of State expand on it? I am somebody who drives up and down the M1 every day of the week. I am not taking it against Northern drivers but when one is out of one's jurisdiction, one certainly sees many more speeding Northern cars going up and down that motorway. When one knows that one can do it and not be caught speeding or that gardaí will not check one on checkpoints, the temptation is-----

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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Do not be looking at Ms Gildernew.

Mary Moran (Labour)
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I am not looking at Ms Gildernew at all. It works both sides of the Border. The issue of whether when one is indicted for speeding, the penalty points are carried on both sides of the Border is a significant one that should be addressed.

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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I apologise for my late arrival as I was attending another meeting. I welcome the Minister of State. This is a very important committee. Other committees such as the Committee of Public Accounts or the finance or agriculture committees may be regarded by some in the Oireachtas as being very important but in my view this committee is by far the most important, given that it frames what happens on the island of Ireland. The progress of events in the past 20 years has been incredible when one remembers what both sides of the Border on the island of Ireland had to endure and how people have overcome such difficulties. We are in a much better place now.

Last Monday, a number of Fine Gael Oireachtas Members went to Stormont, on their own initiative, in order to build links. We attended a dinner with major business leaders and members of all the political parties as well as the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Peter Robinson said that we can talk about the political situation but I think we have got over that, so to speak. I do not think the DUP or the other parties regard politicians coming to visit as an issue now. As politicians, we need to begin to reach out socially rather than politically because that is how things happen. I refer to the North-South parliamentary forum and the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly and various agencies and infrastructure but in my view, visits such as last week's visit facilitate social exchange and off-the-record conversations build friendships which it is hoped will last for the good of everyone.

I have been to the Newtownards Road and I have met former combatants and dissident IRA prisoners. I have visited Marian Price in hospital and I am delighted that she was released, which was the right thing to do. These issues should have been addressed much earlier.

I refer to some issues outstanding such as the Irish language and the bill of rights which need to be addressed and this committee can play a significant role in addressing them. I have said publicly and in this committee that we have no interaction with loyalist and Unionist MPs. This is an important committee. I commend the SDLP and Sinn Féin MLAs who have attended our meetings and made valuable contributions. However, absence has created a void which we should not ignore. We may need to send out the message that it would be helpful to the loyalist and Unionist community but also it would be helpful to this committee and of benefit to the Good Friday Agreement to have some involvement and interaction with them and to hear their views.

We need education about our past and where we come from. When I visited the Newtownards Road last Monday, I was conscious that nearly 100 years ago my grandfather was tried in a Belfast court in 1919 and was imprisoned in the Curragh. He was from the republican tradition and a Sinn Féin councillor and he went on hunger strike. He joined the Garda Síochána at the foundation of the State. At that time, tens of thousands of young men were involved in the Ulster Volunteers and were marching, mobilising, training and arming themselves to fight against home rule while my grandfather was involved in the Irish Volunteers of which there were 200,000. They were training, mobilising and arming themselves to push for home rule. The historian, Roy Foster, said that if the First World War had not broken out, there would have been some terrible bloodshed on the island of Ireland. I come from Boyle, a town of 3,500 people and 126 young men from that town died in the First World War. History is written by the victors and we air-brushed those young men out of our lives and out of our history. I will wear the poppy because these young men came from a Nationalist tradition and they should be remembered. The poppy should not be the preserve of militant unionism, nor should the lily be the preserve of militant nationalism. I can respect the 126 young men from my town or the 50,000 young men from the island of Ireland by wearing something in remembrance of their sacrifice. Equally, as democratic Nationalists we should not be afraid to wear the lily to remember the men of 1916.

Let us not talk about the political structures because they are there to stay. Our work is to build up cross-Border and cross-community links through education. For some politicians in Cork and in other parts of the country, the North might as well be as far as Roscommon because that is as far as they have travelled. The same applies to people in Northern Ireland. We must try to encourage much more co-operation. We should not be afraid of anybody nor should we dwell on our history - although we should remember it - and we need to move forward.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I know the Minister of State is pressed for time. He will have noted that brevity is alien to this committee but it reflects the enthusiasm and commitment of the members and shows their personal interest in North-South relations. I commend all members on their ongoing personal interest in the work and their endeavours through their party structures. The interest and enthusiasm is a reflection of the current situation in Northern Ireland which has become a changed place. I agree there are challenges such as legacy issues. This committee visited Derry which is a changed place. The Minister of State will know this from his interest in Derry. I refer to the legacy of the Fleadh Cheoil and the city of culture events which have made Derry a changed place. It was a privilege and delight to be there as a member of this committee, to hear about the success of the events of 2013. People were also talking about the future. This committee wants to be part of that change but not because we want to make ourselves feel good. Deputy Martin Ferris summed it up that people need to see the economic dividend of the peace process, not just symbolic projects such as the Narrow Water bridge and the A5 road. We know the economic dividends which these major projects bring to that part of the island. I acknowledge the Minister of State's reflection about the North-South Ministerial Council's change in focus and direction to look specifically at economic projects. The north-west gateway is firmly back on the agenda. As noted during our trip to Derry this agenda is not exclusive to one city but it will include the entire region and a widespread population.

The Minister of State is under time pressure.

He will not have time to go into every observation, but his summation will undoubtedly reflect the mood of the committee. I thank him and his officials for their attendance at this meeting.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I thank members for their broad range of contributions. It would take a long time to reply to each in detail, but many were pertinent and I will answer as many as I can in a short space of time. A number of themes came through and several members mentioned similar issues of concern, for example, the Narrow Water Bridge project. Everyone present was enthusiastic for it. Unfortunately, EU funding for it has been withdrawn. Deputy Smith mentioned the various difficulties encountered in matching the funding. As a result, the focus now is on ensuring that the approximately €18 million that was forthcoming goes to other projects. It should not be lost even though this particular project is in abeyance. We will endeavour to put the project back on the agenda because it is a desirable one, as mentioned by a number of Deputies and Senator Moran, but the current deadlines have been missed and we can do nothing about that. It is the Government's intention to work with colleagues in the Executive to that end. The Tánaiste confirmed this at his meeting with the First and Deputy First Ministers on 10 January 2014. There will undoubtedly be disappointment on the Louth-Down border in particular, but also in other areas along the Border. Nevertheless, funding will continue to be available.

The Chairman, Deputy Smith and others mentioned the A5 project. Its funding continues. The Government and the Northern Ireland Executive have confirmed their commitment to the scheme and the Government has reaffirmed its funding commitment of €25 million per annum in 2015 and 2016. It is a question of moving ahead. There was a judicial decision in Northern Ireland regarding the A5 and environmental reviews must be completed before the project can proceed. In that regard, I was glad to note the recent statement of the Minister for Regional Development, Mr. Danny Kennedy, MLA, to the Northern Ireland Assembly that his Department was on schedule to commence public consultations in April. Since some of the obstacles have been overcome and the Republic is on a better financial footing, we would like to see that project moving ahead more rapidly. Opening up the gateway to the north west has been mentioned. The area of Donegal, Deputy Feighan's Roscommon and my native county of Sligo has cross-Border involvements with Fermanagh and so on and has a large Unionist population. It is important that it be opened up economically and politically. As such, I would like to see the A5 scheme continue.

Deputy Smith mentioned a bill of rights. It is a commitment under the Good Friday Agreement that has not been fulfilled. Everyone North and South would like to see progress being made. The Tánaiste has made the views of the Government clear to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and will continue raising the issue in his discussions with her and the First and Deputy First Ministers. I welcome the fact that the bill of rights is one of the issues to be addressed by a commission on identity, culture and tradition as outlined in the proposals that emerged from the recent political talks. There is widespread support from both sides of the community.

The Deputy also referred to an Irish language Act. One should be introduced in Northern Ireland. All parties to the Good Friday Agreement recognised the importance of respect, understanding and tolerance in respect of linguistic diversity. I welcome that the Irish language is one of the issues to be addressed by the commission on identity, culture and tradition. We are looking forward to seeing progress on that front.

This brings me to the recent Haass talks and how progress on them may be achieved, which every member referred to in one way or another. Intensive negotiations are still under way. Only yesterday, there was a meeting of the leaders of the political parties regarding the talks. They are anxious to make progress. There will be a further meeting next week, after which we will move on to the St. Patrick's Day events in Washington. Within this debate fall all of the relevant issues, for example, parades, flags and other legacy issues. This work is key to moving forward. Much progress has been made under the Haass talks and there is a great deal of agreement on a number of matters. This is the framework under which we hope progress can continue.

This work emanates from the Northern Ireland Executive in the first instance. Unlike the Good Friday Agreement, which was brokered by outside interests and bodies, the work following the talks will be brokered within the framework of Northern Ireland and the parties represented on its Executive. A satisfactory conclusion is important. Our Government and the Government of the United Kingdom are special interest actors in this respect, but we want the initiative to come from within Northern Ireland. We are hopeful that progress will be made.

We support the Haass proposals on a code of conduct, as mentioned by a number of members following Deputy Smith's raising of it initially. He stated that he only had a couple of items to raise, but he-----

Brendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, there were more incomplete issues than I believed.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The North's Minister for Justice, Mr. David Ford, MLA, has acknowledged that there is a gap in the legislation on parades. He would like to see it addressed.

Deputy Smith referred to immigration reform. The Taoiseach and the Ministers will take every opportunity to advance this work. The Tánaiste was recently in ongoing contact with Congressman Paul Ryan. People on all sides of the political divide agree that this is a major priority. We are anxious to make progress on it as quickly as possible.

Deputy Conlan raised a number of issues. With others, he mentioned the heavy goods vehicle, HGV, levy, which will be introduced across the UK from 1 April. Naturally, we are concerned that it may impact on cross-Border trade and all areas within the Border region. A number of representations were made by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, who has taken the lead on this issue. Several roads that criss-cross the Border - parts of the A37 and the A3 - are being exempted from the levy. We will continue to pursue additional exemptions, including for the A5, given the Irish Government's financial commitment to its upgrade. We are anxious to ensure that the levy is not dealt with in the way outlined by Ms Gildernew, that is, it is discussed in the broader UK, but its application to Scotland and Northern Ireland is an afterthought, and that it not interfere in any way with cross-Border trade and co-operation between the two jurisdictions.

Deputy Conlan raised the issue of health care services. A degree of co-operation in this area is taking place. For example, ongoing co-operation is taking place with the radiotherapy centre in Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry. Likewise, there is ongoing co-operation on the health initiative with European Union funding. There are also developments in cross-Border children's paediatric cardiac surgery. They are a number of examples of co-operation but health is such a crucial area that facilities north and south of the Border that are in easy reach of each other should be maximised to the full. We will take that matter on board. A note is being taken by the officials of all the items that have been raised and they will be built into the system.
Ms Michelle Gildernew, MP, is very welcome. Her initial question on having an out-of-hours contact is a valid point in that there can be issues that concern this jurisdiction and it is frustrating if no contact is available at the time in question. We are happy to address that and we will be in contact with her on that point.
On the health issue Ms Gildernew raised, we are anxious to expand and develop the level of co-operation that is in place. It is at a fledging level at present but it is certainly an area for cross-Border co-operation. The next meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council plenary will provide an opportunity to review the health area that was raised by Deputy Conlan and Ms Gildernew and to review progress with the Northern Ireland Executive.
Ms Gildernew mentioned the reconciliation fund. Naturally, we are extremely open to any progress and developments in this area and in ensuring the most efficient use of the funds. However, it is important to bear in mind that these involve small grants - less than €120,000. Essentially, it is a fund that is provided in this jurisdiction and it does not have matching funds. It is not a substitute or an add-on to funding that comes from the Northern Ireland Executive. There are considerable limitations on what can be done with this fund. It is something that might be well worthwhile examining in terms of matching funds, topping it up and increasing that amount.
Deputy Ferris's remarks about an all-Ireland economy in the context of jobs are extremely important. The Taoiseach and the Tánaiste propose much closer agreement with the Executive on the issue of youth unemployment in particular. That was very much the focus of our Presidency in the first half of last year. It is something that could be strongly explored because there are high levels of youth unemployment on both sides of the Border. The Minister for Social Protection is finalising the drawing down of €130 million in this jurisdiction in regard to youth unemployment and that is frontloaded for the first two years, 2014 and 2015. In the context of perhaps examining areas of matching funds, the Government has to look at making its contribution but also the European Investment Bank has agreed that it would provide matching funds. There is a whole area that can be opened up in that respect. It is something that could very easily be addressed on a joint cross-Border basis and it probably would lead to greater progress than any other in the sense of providing jobs where there are none at present. That is something we will certainly take on board.
On the role of the two Governments, I would emphasise the point that in the talks that are taking place, primary responsibility lies with the Northern Ireland Executive parties. The Irish Government is playing an active role to the full in partnership with the Northern Ireland Executive parties as they complete the work of the Agreement. The Tánaiste spoke with all the party leaders last week and that level of contact will continue. It is essentially the Northern Ireland Executive that has to deal with the substance of the issues but there will be full support from the Tánaiste and the Government.
Deputy Wall raised the construction of the Narrow Water Bridge and the establishment of a civic forum. That is unfinished business in regard to the Good Friday Agreement. The Tánaiste, who has ongoing contacts with the Secretary of State, will take the opportunity to discuss the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, including the establishment of a civic forum. With the Northern Ireland Executive concluding in the context of the North-South Ministerial Council, the Government has continued to support the re-establishment of the civic forum as a valuable and, as yet, unimplemented provision of the Good Friday Agreement. We are of the view that a strong and resilient civic forum can play an important role in providing a positive and constructive challenge to the political process and in building a more reconciled and prosperous Northern Ireland. That is an area that needs to be pushed because with the establishment of a civic forum, ordinary people get involved to a greater degree. It is something we are always talking about in terms of overseas development and our activity on the international plane is focused on the importance of civic society and the importance of space for engagement at a civic level. I am sure that is something we will strongly take on board.
Deputy Crowe referred to the Justice for the Forgotten and that is an important area. The subject of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings is coming back to the fore again as this year is the 40th anniversary of those bombings. Good work has been done by Margaret Irwin in that context and it is important there is funding to support the good work that is being done. I previously indicated that Justice for the Forgotten would be welcome to apply for funding from the reconciliation fund, which is operated through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. It has been in contact recently with the Justice for the Forgotten and the closing date for receipt of such applications is 7 March 2014. The Deputy might just bring that to their attention again. We would be very supportive of ensuring that there is a stream of funding to continue the good work that has taken place to date in very difficult circumstances.
Deputy Crowe made an interesting suggestion regarding GSOC, a relevant one at present. The Northern Ireland ombudsman and policing commission have been very successful. It is important we take those messages on board in the current context as we are reviewing the operation of our own Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission and there is the need to ensure that we update in that context. We can very well take the template that has been effective in Northern Ireland and take on board the benefits gained from that. That is a good cross-Border initiative on which we can work.
In regard to the economy and what Deputy Ferris said in that context, we have been engaged in joint trade missions with Northern Ireland. We had a joint trade mission with Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom and Ireland two weeks ago in Singapore and it was very successful. This is a matter that comes under my direct jurisdiction and I am very anxious to see a greater level of joint trade missions to various parts of the world where we can complement each other in terms of doing business, seeking partnerships and making useful engagements. We started the Africa Ireland Economic Forum two years ago where a few hundred of Ireland's companies that are doing business in Africa meet on an annual basis in conjunction with the Global Irish Economic Forum and a few hundred businesses in Africa come over to Ireland. We do it through the embassies and it would be useful to have Northern Ireland presence there in order that Northern Ireland companies could equally engage at that level.

There are specific areas in that respect, and agriculture is another area on which we could do a lot of work together.
Deputy Crowe might be aware that one of my responsibilities is in terms of development. There is not any reason we should not do a joint project on overseas development aid where we would work together with the Northern Ireland Executive in delivering a project we would seek to fund jointly. That would be beneficial in terms of sustainable development in some country, perhaps in Africa where there is great need in that respect. There are areas in that regard where I believe such joint projects would be very useful.
The Parry family has been told they are welcome to apply for reconciliation fund support. Deputy Crowe might mention that to them.
The last point Deputy Crowe made was on the consultative forum. The Government wants to see this established but, ultimately, it is a matter for the Northern Ireland Executive.
Regarding immigration and border controls, we will see about pursuing that. We have dealt with the issue of victims.
Senator Moran spoke about penalty points. We will have to come back to the Senator on that. It is primarily a matter for the Departments of Justice and Equality and Transport, Tourism and Sport. I have seen the documentation on that, which has been covered in the media, and I am aware of the difficulty in applying penalty points in another jurisdiction, but that was always the difficulty. We knew that was the difficulty and the question is how we find a solution to it. It is a legal issue for the Departments of Transport, Tourism and Sport and Justice and Equality but we will bring it to the attention of those Departments and ask that they progress it in the context of this committee.
The Narrow Water Bridge is another issue raised but we have dealt with that.
Deputy Feighan's points were well made. He made a thoughtful contribution in looking at the broader issue of a decade of commemoration, and the centenary commemoration currently taking place. In terms of looking at what took place 100 years ago and the different positions people took, the families who fought in the First World War, the families who fought in the War of Independence, ending up in the Civil War, and the legacy from all of that, it is the intention of the Government, rather than emphasising the differences, to emphasise the degree of involvement of all of us on this island in those issues in terms of the different positions people took. We must ensure the emphasis will not be on negativity but on the positive aspects and building reconciliation across the board. There are lessons to be learned from those early years as well.
There is a good deal to be done in terms of cross-Border activity such as Fine Gael public representatives going across the Border to attend engagements, many of whom, I understand from the Chairman, would not have been in Stormont or even in Belfast previously. There is much work to be done in that respect but there is a huge amount of work to be done by ordinary people in the Republic travelling across the Border to visit Northern Ireland. A major initiative is the Titanicexhibition, which has been a great magnet for people coming from Dublin and elsewhere in the country. It is hoped the economic benefits of that will spread to other areas in Northern Ireland.
In particular, I would like to see some progress made on the gateway to the north west in which I have a particular interest. I can assure the Deputy that the A5 project will be one of the areas I will seek to progress strongly now that, hopefully, our economic difficulties are behind us. In terms of the counties bordering on the north west, which have a large Unionist population, I hope the level of cross-Border activity can be greatly increased.
I thank the members for their contributions. This is still part of a listening mode. We want to draw it into the review mechanism and ensure that the broadest possible consultation takes place. Everything that has been said here today will be taken on board and fed back to the Minister. I thank the Chairman and the members.

Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State, his officials and the members. We will take him up on the offer to have a specific session on the new funding mechanism. We appreciate that offer. I thank the Minister of State for spending more time here than that to which he was committed.