Mr. Patrick Swords:

I might be able to answer some of the Deputy' questions. We are constantly talking about billions and billions of euro going around. There is obviously a wonderful financial model and the citizen is to get a few bob and a few jobs here and there. Fundamentally, the Aarhus Convention providing for access to information and public participation is not about consultation. The decision cannot be made until members of public have engaged and the process has been brought through. When we go through our environmental impact assessment and our public participation procedures, we weigh up and evaluate what are the benefits and what aspects are not beneficial. The decision is based on a reasonable proportionate measure. Just because something has negative environment impacts does not mean it will not be approved, but we cannot have disproportionate negative impacts for very small benefits. It is part of the renewables directive that measures for the licensing and operation of renewable generation have to be proportionate and transparent. We have a huge failing in that area.

As regards the money to be given to the community, that divides communities. There are people who do not want to have these developments around them for very good reason. When we come around to the question of community gain and statutory community gain in particular, we have to be very careful and question whether it is a bribe. That is being examined legally in the United Kingdom. One cannot go around and give people money because there are other people who have every right to participate in the decision who are going to have financial issues with it or whatever. One must be very careful.

The other side of the issue, speaking from my perspective as an engineer with 25 years' experience of major projects ranging in value from €50 million to €500 million, is that projects have to be delivered on time, on budget and safely round the globe. If I do not deliver on those criteria I am out of a job - or prosecuted, in various places such as Ukraine where I have worked. One of the issues with the engineering profession is a tendency to deep conservatism. We assess things. When a dream salesman comes in we know it is a dream salesman. Our energy policy in Ireland is dysfunctional and it is all over the place. Whatever sort of dream comes along, everybody jumps on board. At the same time, 50% of the money, if not more, that is being paid in electricity bills comes from industry or commercial entities. They cannot carry this charge and be competitive - they are going to walk out.

As regards the Bill, an assessment has been done of what land is available. If we had followed the strategic environmental assessment process and adhered to it, which we did not do and which is now subject to legal proceedings at the UN and elsewhere, we would know what the proper distance is to protect the human population. Therefore, we could have planned - taking account of the scale of our landscape that needs to be protected, special areas of habitat, etc. - what exactly we could build. Yet we have a plan to provide for capacity of 7,145 MW.