James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Tá a lán ceisteanna anseo.

I thank Deputy Ó Caoláin for his support. I think he mentions that the jury is still out on this issue but I would dispute that with him. There is a whole host of reports from the past two years, in the order of 37 different studies and reports. An analysis done by Moodie et al in 2012 suggests that standardised packaging can reduce the appeal of tobacco products, increase the effectiveness of health warnings and reduce the ability of branded tobacco packaging to mislead customers about the harmful effects of smoking. That is very much the case in terms of having a plain package, as the one I have described here, that does not confuse. There is one message, namely, "This is not good for you". That is the truth. The more messaging one has on a tobacco package, the less likely one is to get the core message across.

It is more effective to have plain colouring and one simple message, delivered both in writing and with a graphic picture and the 37 studies support this. The 2012 review conducted by Moodie across these studies states that it is worth emphasising the remarkable consistency in study findings regarding the potential impact of plain packaging. Across studies using different designs conducted in a range of countries and with smokers and non-smokers, the key findings are similar. This consistency of evidence can provide confidence about the observed potential effects of plain packaging. If and when introduced, existing evidence suggests that plain packaging represents an additional tobacco control measure that has the potential to contribute to reductions in the harm caused by tobacco smoking now and into the future. That is why I said in my opening remarks that this is about protecting children and future generations from ever taking this product. I will be astonished if the tobacco industry does not fight us tooth and nail on this because they know, as they do more research than anybody, that it will work as well. They have billions of euro at their disposal. They are terrified of it. They will leave no stone unturned or no group unsolicited for support to try to block this.

I will go through the contributions seriatim as I might miss something that somebody has said. There is a report out today from KPMG sponsored by the tobacco industry showing there has been no reduction. I would like to get the details of how that was carried out. This is the industry that knew in 1959 it was selling a carcinogen but never told anyone.

I would take very carefully anything that would emanate from a tobacco-sponsored report and examine it very closely.

The Deputy asked about the state of readiness of Britain and France. I will refer those questions on to the chief medical officer. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all my colleagues in the EU for supporting the EU directive during the Irish Presidency and for ensuring the trialogues can start, in terms of this directive, with the Commission.

Several members have spoken about the illicit trade and the seizure of cigarettes. I accept that people come to us and make representations. I am pleased that the committee is inviting a broad section of people to come in and make their positions known. We want this Bill to be a very good Bill. We want it to be legally proofed. We will take all arguments that come in and examine them very closely. I think I will address the seizure of cigarettes. Many members have addressed the issue of the illicit trade. The bottom line is that this is an enforcement issue for Revenue, which is now reviewing its strategy with the intention of bringing out a new strategy to deal with it. This issue is also dealt with by the Garda as a matter of course. Like others, I am concerned to ensure severe penalties are put in place to deal with those who sell to people who are under age, those who smuggle and those who are found with illegal cigarettes. Almost 90% of the approximately 6 million cigarettes confiscated last year were contraband and just over 10% of them were counterfeit. The tobacco companies are laughing all the way to the bank one way or the other because they are producing these cigarettes in other countries. They are not having them smuggled in here, but they are being smuggled in here. They are at no loss because they have been paid for them already elsewhere. They are only affected by the counterfeit ones.

The argument that has been made in the past - nobody has raised it here today - is that these measures will make it much easier to counterfeit. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, this will make it easier to police the illegal trade. No country in Europe other than Ireland is doing this at the moment. They will stick out like a sore thumb. I believe this will be advantageous in relation to that trade. This is an issue for the Department of Justice and Equality, as I have said. The Deputy asked about how seized cigarettes are disposed of. There will be ceremonial public disposals of seized cigarettes. There are many ways to dispose of them.

Deputy Dowds asked whether the Department of Health can put pressure on the Department of Finance with regard to the limits that are in place at the moment. We continually talk to our counterparts in the Department of Finance about this issue. We also talk to them about the price of cigarettes because we know they are price-sensitive. I have said on many occasions that I would like each individual cigarette to cost €1, so that people will think long and hard before they drag long and hard. I also believe that a sudden sharp rise in cigarette prices often shocks people into giving up smoking. I do not think incremental price increases are of as much assistance in that regard.

The Deputy suggested that in some areas, up to one third of cigarettes may be illegal. That may be so, but I would not say that position obtains across the country by any means. He also suggested that the tobacco industry is taking the State to the cleaners. There is no doubt that as part of the tobacco companies' strategy, they threaten litigation in the hope that people will hang back. I can verify to this committee that politicians from other jurisdictions have said to me "We will hold back and wait to see how you guys get on". We often said the same thing. We waited to see how Scotland would get on with minimum unit pricing when court cases were pursued in that regard.

The tobacco industry would like to intimidate certain countries. It would particularly like to intimidate a country like Ireland. It was reported to me that representatives of the industry were in Europe in the Commissioner's office threatening to sue Ireland for our national gross domestic product on the basis of intellectual property rights. I cannot verify this. I would like to take this opportunity to reiterate clearly that it would be fairly strange to live in a society that would put the lives and well-being of its citizens behind an argument on intellectual property rights. I do not believe it is the wish of the Irish people for Ireland to be such a society. I do not believe many western societies would choose to put intellectual property rights ahead of the lives of children. I cannot imagine that would be the case. I remind members to be under no illusion that the tobacco companies will try every single method available to them to derail this.

I thank Deputy Mitchell O'Connor for her support. I have just dealt with the issue of legal opinion, which she raised.