John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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In this session we will have a discussion with Ms Ann Riordan, chairperson designate, Science Foundation Ireland, who is accompanied by Mr. Donal Keane, chief operations officer and secretary to the board. I also welcome Mr. Brian Dalton, assistant principal officer, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. If they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing ruling of the Chair to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I invite Ms Riordan to make her opening remarks.

Ms Ann Riordan:

I thank the joint committee for the invitation to attend the meeting. I have been asked by the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Richard Bruton, to serve as chairman of Science Foundation Ireland, a role in which I would be honoured to serve. In the first instance, I will provide a brief overview of my business background, share my initial impressions of Science Foundation Ireland and outline my personal objectives in the first three months of my term. Apropos the above I will welcome any question members may wish to ask.

My career began many years ago with the Alliance and Dublin Consumers Gas Company. Some of those present will not remember the era of the marriage bar during which I was required to leave my job when I got married in 1970. When my daughter, Lisa, was two years old and my son, John, six weeks old, I discovered that I had to assume the role of family breadwinner. I moved with the family to London, as I had no option but to emigrate to find employment to support them.

My career in the IT industry started with Wordplex in London. The IT industry was in its infancy when I found employment with a start-up company, Wordplex Information Systems, a word processing company. No one here will remember that before word processing it was a world of typewriters. After some years working in London, the company was developed into a PLC and I returned to Ireland as managing director of Wordplex Ireland. In 1990 I was approached by Microsoft to set up Microsoft Ireland. Microsoft was an unknown name at the time and had two customers in Ireland. As a result, on Bill Gate’s first visit to Ireland I had to go out into the highways and byways to find an audience to whom he could present the company’s vision and strategy. The rest is history. In 1996 I was most fortunate to be presented by Bill Gates with the chairman’s award for excellence as top contributor in Europe. Having built the business and the brand successfully in Ireland, I retired from Microsoft in 2001. I served on the information society steering committee and the science, technology and innovation advisory council. In the wake of the Good Friday Agreement, I was appointed vice chairman of Tourism Ireland in 2000. It was start-up company, with a remit to market the island of Ireland internationally. After serving for seven years, I was reappointed to the board and served as chairman for the remaining two years of my term.

While still at Microsoft, I was appointed by the then Taoiseach to the board of MIT MediaLab Europe, a new, independent university level research and education centre specialising in telecommunications and information and multimedia technologies, including Internet and digital commerce. The Government provided MLE with seed funding and accommodation in the Guinness Hop Store. The balance of the required funding was to be raised by MIT and MLE from research contracts, industry sponsorships and private contributions. However, this was in the period of the dotcom crash and a dramatic reduction in research by industry had a severe impact on MLE's ability to reach a critical mass of sponsorship. The collaboration agreement between MIT and the Government was terminated in 2005. I served on the board until 2005.

During my tenure with Microsoft there was a serious dearth of skills in the IT sector which was impeding growth for Microsoft in Ireland. To overcome this shortfall, I instigated a programme with the Ballymun jobs centre to train long-term unemployed persons to qualify as Microsoft-certified professionals. The 25 participants all qualified and found full-time employment. When other multinationals in Ireland heard about the success of the initiative, they overwhelmingly supported the programme which resulted in an industry-wide training initiative, FIT - Fast Track to IT. To date, over 12,000 long-term unemployed persons have been trained in the FIT partners technology, with over 80% securing full-time employment. At the European Council meeting in Lisbon in March 2000 the then Taoiseach, Mr. Bertie Ahern, and the British Prime Minister, Mr. Tony Blair, cited FIT as a model for corporate social responsibility.

As a result, many organisations across Europe, as well as further afield in Canada, emulated the program in their respective countries. I served on the board of FIT from 1998 to 2009.

Earlier this year my term at the National Standards Authority of Ireland expired. I served on the board of that organisation for five years before my appointment as chairman in 2007, a position I held until this year. Rather than listing the authority's achievements, I refer to the reference to it in The House Always Wins by Deputy John McGuinness:

The NSAI is an example of how a State agency should be run. It applies the highest standards to itself in developing standards for others and actually operates at a profit to the Exchequer.

I was delighted to receive a telephone call from the Minister, Deputy Richard Bruton, regarding the post at Science Foundation Ireland. Since then I have had the opportunity to meet the director general of SFI, Professor Mark Ferguson, and the chief operations officer and secretary to the board, Mr Donal Keane, who is here with me today. Both of them have given me a comprehensive briefing on the operations and goals of SFI.

Earlier this year, SFI published a document called Agenda 2020 which sets out its vision of Ireland as a global knowledge leader which places scientific and engineering research at the core of its society in order to power economic development and social progress. Its strategic plan for realising this vision was subject to a consultation process with key stakeholders and the public, with 59 written submissions received and 65 people attending the public consultation meeting. The plan, based on four primary objectives, is ambitious and not for the faint-hearted . I look forward to working with the board and the executive as we strive to achieve those goals. The key performance indicators for each year of the plan are unambiguous and measurable, which will help the board to track performance and ensure the strategic goals are delivered in line with the plan and the vision for the organisation. I am particularly excited about the role SFI can play in enabling Ireland to gain international global advantage in the areas of biotechnology and ICT. As an early evangelist of the economic benefits that knowledge-based industries can contribute to this country's prosperity, I am committed to working with the board, the executive and the Government to realise SFI's vision.

It would be presumptuous of me to assume, at this early stage, definitively to identify areas that require particular focus. I am impressed by the enthusiasm for the implementation of the strategic plan, the professionalism of those I have met in SFI and the openness and transparency that exists in the organisation. The expertise and experience of the members of the board are impressive, and I am convinced their attributes, along with my broad experience, will assist, support and challenge the executive in its efforts to ensure SFI is the best science-funding agency in the world and an exemplar among building partnerships which fund excellent science. Our aim is to have an engaged and scientifically informed public, with SFI representing the ideal modern service organisation in line with its primary objectives.

My personal objectives for the first three months are to work with the board, the director general and company secretary on a number of specific issues. I intend to agree a schedule and format for board meetings that will facilitate discussion, ensure decisions are kept at strategic level and that sufficient and appropriate information is provided to the board to meet its fiduciary duties. I am seeking to achieve SWiFT 3000 certification through independent assessment of SFI's corporate governance performance and compliance to the highest standards of corporate governance codes and ethics. I hope to explore areas of focus for applied research and develop a funding model in accordance with the Industrial Development (Science Foundation Ireland) (Amendment) Act 2013. I intend to ensure that the 2014 annual plan, key performance indicators and budget are approved by the board in a timely manner. I will assist the director general to secure the appointment of a director for programmes, enterprise and international affairs, one of the key positions required by the organisation in order effectively to manage its core function. Finally, I will familiarise myself with the overall public funding of research in Ireland, in an effort to understand SFI's role within that context.

I again thank the Vice Chairman for the invitation to appear before the committee today. I will be pleased to take any questions.

John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I wholeheartedly endorse Ms Riordan's description of herself as an evangelist of knowledge-based industry in this country. Her achievement in bringing Microsoft to Ireland and developing its presence to where it is today was particularly influential. I now invite questions from members, beginning with Deputy Dara Calleary.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Ms Riordan for her presentation, which clearly set out her very impressive track record. I suspect she is the first nominee from the Department ever to cite approvingly comments by Deputy John McGuinness. I take this opportunity to thank her not just for what she is about to do but also for all she has done. She has given a huge amount of time to public service while at the same time maintaining a very demanding career. If more could see their way to doing the same, the country would be in a better place.

Science Foundation Ireland has set itself a target of securing €1 billion under Horizon 2020, much of which will be laid out during Ms Riordan's term as chairman. Does she have any specific strategies in mind in this regard?

Ms Ann Riordan:

I do not yet have strategies laid out as I have only been in the position for two weeks. I was aghast when I became aware of the figures showing the low level of take-up. The Deputy can be assured that I recognise the importance of setting high targets in terms of moneys pulled down. SFI should and will be working with the higher institutes of education, in the country's interest, to ensure we access as much of that funding as possible.

Mr. Donal Keane:

To clarify, the €1 billion to which the Deputy referred - it might even be €1.25 billion if the newspapers last weekend are correct - is a national target and not destined in its entirety for SFI. We are hoping to get in the region of €150 million to €200 million of that funding. It is a developing process and I understand a group has been established under Enterprise Ireland that will see all the agencies coming together with that target in mind. We will have a significant subset of the funding.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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I welcome Ms Riordan and her team and wish her well in her new role. Hers is a very impressive CV.

I have no doubt Ms Riordan will bring her own unique experience to the job in which I wish her the very best of luck.

Regional disadvantage is the first issue with which I wish to deal. I have raised it at previous meetings of the committee and at other forums. It is one with which we must grapple, particularly in the context of the various strategies organisations have for the different regions. I am a big believer in research and innovation as drivers of the economy. I support Government policy on the move towards technological universities. I am from the south east and, as Ms Riordan will be aware, Carlow and Waterford institutes of technology have submitted an application for a technological university in the region. What is her view on that matter and what is the view of Science Foundation Ireland of the improvements to which this could give rise and the opportunities it could present for the region in the area of research and development? She may be aware of the work done by TSSG-ArcLabs in Waterford. It is one of the best research and development facilities in the country and very good at co-location in encouraging the private sector to become involved in research and development, new technologies, etc. It should be considered as a model for other locations. Will Ms Riordan outline her thoughts on the matter?

How does Ms Riordan see the work of Science Foundation Ireland impacting on tackling regional disadvantage and unemployment? The south east has higher levels of unemployment than elsewhere. Does Science Foundation Ireland have strategies to assist in this regard?

Research is obviously publicly funded. Some time ago the joint committee discussed with the Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Sean Sherlock, the OECD's commentary on patents and intellectual property. Who owns what is developed? The State invests a great deal in research and development and the OECD was somewhat critical of it in that respect. What is Ms Riordan's view on the State obtaining a return on its investments?

What changes would Ms Riordan like to see in Science Foundation Ireland as an organisation? Agenda 2020 states, "Ireland will be a global knowledge leader that places scientific and engineering research at the core of its society to power economic development and social progress". How does Ms Riordan see this being implemented?

Ms Ann Riordan:

The vision for Science Foundation Ireland is one which emanates from a scientific perspective. Ireland is a small country. I will provide an analogy. Many years ago I was standing on Dún Laoghaire pier when the aircraft carrier, USS John F. Kennedy, sailed into Dublin Bay. As we were waiting to get on a tugboat to visit the ship, the HSS Stena Explorer entered the port. As it did so, it was literally obliged to perform a 180^o turn in order to allow passengers to alight. I was amazed by this. If we equate the USS John F. Kennedy equates to Europe and the HSS Stena Explorer to Ireland, we can see that the country is small and versatile. I am extremely passionate about this matter. If we work together for the good of the country and people do not seek to hold on to certain things, we can achieve whatever we want. It would take hours to turn the USS John F. Kennedy about. However, Ireland, like the HSS Stena Explorer, is versatile and can manoeuvre much more quickly. That is why I am passionate about Science Foundation Ireland and the vision for it. I cannot provide an answer today to how I can have an input into that vision, but the Senator may rest assured that I will be happy to return to the committee when I have been in the job for a few months or one year to answer some of his questions. I hope I can help in progressing the agenda already in place. I cannot see any reason it should not be progressed.

On the issue of regional disadvantage, for many years I was involved with the long-term unemployed in disadvantaged areas and responsible for the Tramlines programme which later became Fast Track to IT, FIT, across Ireland. It was primarily a Microsoft initiative which I led. I may be coming at it from a financial perspective, but those who survive in disadvantaged areas are very skilled. I fundamentally believe it takes a great deal of creativity to survive in such areas. Just because people are disadvantaged as a result of their being, for example, long-term unemployed, this does not mean that they are disadvantaged intellectually. The Smart Futures programme will help the areas to which I refer. People do not need to have fantastic academic backgrounds to work in biotechnology or, in particular, ICT. Regardless of the level at which one enters an organisation, one can, if one has the necessary skills, proceed on an upward path.

Perhaps Mr. Keane might provide some information on the Smart Futures programme.

David Cullinane (Sinn Fein)
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Before he does so, will Ms Riordan outline her view on technological universities? We are looking at technology being the driver for certain regions, of which the south east is one. From a research and development perspective, would the establishment of a technological university help the south east?

Ms Ann Riordan:

Technological colleges would very much suit this area of Ireland's progression, particularly in the teaching of science and technology and maths. I am not yet familiar with Science Foundation Ireland's funding. I understand the level of public funding equates to €800 million a year, which is fantastic. We are behind some countries, but it is still a large pot of money, of which Science Foundation Ireland receives 20%. As stated, I want to become familiar with what is involved. I am not in a position to provide the Senator with a direct answer.

Mr. Donal Keane:

I will attempt to be of assistance. The simple answer to the question on regional disadvantage is Science Foundation Ireland would not, per se, have a strategy in that regard. It is important to say what we fund is excellent science. No matter from where such science comes, it will attract funding if it is good enough. If it is not, it will not nor should it attract funding.

The Senator referred to TSSG which was established by Dr. Willie Donnelly. We are very familiar with the work done by him and his people. He is connected with the Centre for Telecommunications Research, CTVR, in Trinity College Dublin, one of our big CSETs. The way forward for regions, not just the south east, which might have their disadvantages is through collaboration. Through our centres awards this year, we put up €200 million which was matched by €100 million from industry. Most of these involve collaborations by more than one university. It is not the case that small institutions must seek big partners. There are big partners with other big partners, small partners with big partners and small partners with other small partners. Dr. Donnelly's group punched above its weight through building on the success of TSSG by collaborating with CTVR. We do not have a specific strategy, but if projects are good enough, they will be awarded funding.

Smart Futures programmes are more downstream-oriented and involve attracting the interest of those still in school who could, I presume, be prospective students for a technological university. As matters stand, however, Carlow Institute of Technology does a good job. Waterford Institute of Technology is very significant in its own right and I would have no worries in that regard. As Ms Riordan stated, one attracts both interest and people and then takes matters forward.

The Senator inquired about intellectual property. The principle is that the inventor owns. Our funding is exclusively related to universities.

In other words, the money we give out is to the universities. Every letter of offer we issue is to a university; it is not to the individuals or for the individuals' principal investigators. They are the deliverers but very clearly accountability rests with the university presidents who are also the owners of the IP. In some programmes where we have industry involvement, agreements need to be put in place at the outset between industry and the researchers such that Ireland’s interests are protected. In that work we are guided by the national guidelines on IP which were refreshed earlier this year. That would very much drive those negotiations which are set at a national level to protect Ireland’s position.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Riordan and wish her well. I appreciate that she is getting to grips with Science Foundation Ireland but that she has much experience in the area.

Similar to Deputy Calleary I wish to raise EU funding. The issue has come up previously that we do not do enough to leverage funding in the EU for our research spend. Ms Riordan probably has that in her sights, which is a good thing.

Ms Riordan might have an insight into ICT skills from her work with Fastrack to IT, FIT, which has been before the committee. It is an impressive operation. The committee produced a report on the area of ICT skills shortage. That coincided with the publication of the Government’s ICT action plan. Perhaps Mr. Keane would wish to respond also in terms of whether the plan is having an effect. I am aware there is a big take up in postgraduate reconversion. The programme is in its infancy in that it has only been going for approximately two years but we should have begun to see results at this stage.

I was pleased when I heard the witnesses were coming before the committee. I was interested in Ms Riordan’s reference in her opening comments to the marriage bar and having to give up work. A couple of female PhD students were in contact with me who had to go on maternity leave. Their payment as researchers is a stipend, it is not accredited pay so they are not entitled to any maternity leave or sick leave. I know the situation in the United Kingdom is similar but that is not the case in other countries where they recognise the payment as insurable income, which does make a difference, in particular when one considers that such people can be in their mid to late 20s and they want to build up contributions or they might have mortgages. Many issues arise but maternity leave in particular was raised with me. Ms Riordan might not have a response but she might consider whether the issue could be resolved in the course of her work.

Ms Ann Riordan:

On ICT skills, before coming in I quickly had a look at the policy but please do not ask me to quote from it. I read the action plan. Senator Clune said FIT was in before the committee and that there is still a skills shortage in certain areas in ICT. That is what prompted the FIT programme in the beginning and there is still a need for it. I do not know whether it was said at the time that there are probably openings for approximately 4,200 staff.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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Yes, it is something like that.

Ms Ann Riordan:

It would be a shame not to fill those positions really quickly with skills transfer. Many of the jobs are not at a very high level. The problem with ICT is that based on being in the industry for so long, we are going a lot for graduates, which is very important, but certainly in my early days in Microsoft it was apparent that graduates got bored. If a company just recruits people at a certain level such as with a primary degree or master’s degree, some of the jobs can be quite routine and they get bored and it is hard to hold on to them. It is very hard in work to challenge someone at PhD level all the time, in particular in some areas of ICT. It is essential to have another skill level for those coming in with skills and which allow for progression within an organisation. The IT industry is very good at that.

I started off in the computer industry as administration manager but then with experience I progressed. Skills change every 18 months so one needs a very versatile programme to keep people on-skill all the time. It is impossible for our educational institutes to keep up with the rate of change. One has to leave that to the companies because they will keep abreast with their technologies. There must be some way of getting what is being called, associated professionals. I will come back to Senator Clune about maternity leave and PhD students.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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Ms Riordan could please keep it in mind during her stewardship.

Ms Ann Riordan:

Perhaps Mr. Keane has something to add. I do not wish to put my foot in it at this stage without having looked into the matter.

Mr. Donal Keane:

I will be kicking Ms Riordan under the table. In terms of the issue raised, to clarify, when researchers are PhD students they get a stipend but when they graduate and become part of a post-doctoral research team they are part of the staff of the university, albeit they might be on a contract, and under the fixed-term workers act they now get rights whereas five years ago they did not have many rights at all, they just got a succession of short-term contracts for between one and four years depending on funding. Now I understand they get rights from the moment they are signed up and if they do not get a further contract they must be made redundant. It would be a matter for the universities, not us.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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Okay.

John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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with regard to the associate professional issue, I have been working with FIT and the Minister for Social Protection to push the concept of the associate professional because we see the value of what FIT is proposing. There is more than one way to achieve the skillset that is needed, in particular in the IT sector but not only that, the model FIT has proposed would be transferable to other sectors in a new age apprenticeship type model for the pharmaceutical sector and wherever else we want to apply it. Is it correct to say that we still have too many people going through the university route for the IT sector when some of the jobs could be done by an associate professional which allows for a better fusion between on-site experience for the people working in the environment rather than the fusion with the higher education model?

Ms Ann Riordan:

I would be reluctant to say there are too many people going through the formal university system when one looks at all of the numbers who are unemployed. That is what FIT is about. It should be used as a model right across the broad industries. At this stage I would be reluctant to say we are wrong. Let us fix the problem of the long-term unemployed and those who need reskilling first. When we are back to 4% unemployment we could look at the issue again.

John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That is a fair point.

Ms Ann Riordan:

I would be very reluctant to say that at the moment.

Deirdre Clune (Fine Gael)
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Excuse me, I have to go to the Seanad Chamber for a vote.

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Ms Riordan and her colleagues are very welcome. I am most encouraged from what I have heard from her. The experience she outlined is fantastic. I thank her for taking up the position. Science, research and innovation, commercialisation, entrepreneurship and building companies is what we must focus on if we are to solve the unemployment problem. We need strong leadership. We need people who can make decisions who are not afraid to take on challenges and can be innovative in doing that. Ms Riordan seems to have all the skills required. We are very lucky to have her. I wish her well and look forward to working with her.

I appreciate that Mr. Michael McLoughlin has just arrived but he might be able to help me with a question I have on not-for-profit research technology organisations. We are the only country out of 38 in Europe that does not have them. All research and innovation is currently funded through universities. There is much collaboration around the country between PhD students coming together with multinationals or smaller SME companies coming together to collaborate but they must go through a college in order to get funding for research or innovation. We are the only country in Europe that seems to have this model, which seems to me to be a deterrent for research and innovation. I would appreciate a comment from Mr. McLoughlin. I am aware there is talk about trying to change the system at the moment and there is much impetus in that regard.

Mr. Donal Keane:

I am not the scientist in Science Foundation Ireland, SFI. It is difficult. Going back to what I said earlier, when excellent science is funded the excellent science translates into the individuals who deliver the excellent science. By and large, they tend to be located within the universities, although not exclusively. We are precluded from funding companies but we have companies that partner with SFI awards. For instance, there are Intel scientists embedded in the CRANN CSET in Trinity College. They are people who are not of the universities but are within a corporate entity. There is a linkage to the universities structure. It is difficult because it comes down to the skills set. It is not a question of being profit or not for profit. Profit implies a company, and legally we do not fund them by way of remit. Regarding not for profit organisations, we have done work with charities, sometimes off their own bat where they commissioned research and sometimes in collaboration with another partner, but it is a difficult one.

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Everyone else in Europe is doing it. I am not talking about not for profit organisations per se. I am talking about people who are into research and innovation coming together with big multinational companies, small companies and PhD students but instead of it being in a university environment, it is outside of that framework. They set up a way of doing that on a statutory basis to handle the-----

Mr. Donal Keane:

The Deputy is right. It is a different model.

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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They are happening already but there is more bureaucracy involved because they have to attach themselves, for the sake of bureaucracy, to a university to draw down the money. If we are serious about solving the problem, we should have collaborations that are working. We should be open to that.

Mr. Donal Keane:

Professor Mark Ferguson, who is our director general, has raised some of those issues. We would be aware of bodies like the Fraunhofers in Germany-----

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Mr. Donal Keane:

-----which are stand alone, research-driven institutions. That is a model we would have examined. Seismic changes are needed. To use Ms Riordan's analogy, that is the JFK liner we are trying to deal with rather than the HSS. We are aware of those models but within the structure we need the incentives. People in universities have contracts. The principal investigators, PIs, in universities have tenured contracts. They have a level of security which they build upon to win funding from various agencies to do research. If we create one of these institutes, we have to have a clear idea of the funding that is available to pay the people involved, which may be over and above short-term research contracts. It is a challenge but Professor Mark Ferguson has raised it and he will be examining it.

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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That is good. I am not trying to take away from the work being done in universities but one model does not always suit everybody.

Mr. Donal Keane:

That is true.

Áine Collins (Cork North West, Fine Gael)
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If we are to bring big multinational, small companies and PhD students together in a collaboration, they should be able to set that up. Obviously, they will be raising funds but I would have thought they should be entitled to apply for funding also. I am sure we will be working on that for a while.

John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Does Ms Riordan wish to add to that?

Ms Ann Riordan:

No.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the officials from the SFI and congratulate Ms Riordan on being nominated by the Minister for this position. She has a strong track record over many years in terms of public service.

I wish to raise a number of matters. Does Ms Riordan believe her experience in MIT MediaLab Europe is important in terms of her current role as regards university level research?

My next question is to Ms Riordan or Mr. Keane. Does SFI feed into the Action Plan on Jobs in any way in terms of recommendations to Departments? Are there any other areas they believe should be examined in the coming years to improve the environment for jobs?

Ms Ann Riordan:

My experience in the MIT MediaLab goes back to 2000, which was the earliest indication of what a knowledge based economy can do for us. I was to the forefront of that. The Government at the time approached the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It was trying to set up a digital hub beside the Guinness hops store and its success in attracting MIT MediaLab as an anchor tenant was very much welcomed at the time. It attracted a number of organisations to set up that digital hub. It was very successful from that perspective. A number of patents had gone to Enterprise Ireland which were being worked on just as MediaLab Europe was closing down.

In terms of the way MediaLab approached research, it was based on demonstrations rather than research papers. As it was in the area of media, demonstrations would be used as evidence of the research. We worked with a number of universities. It was the early days when everybody was scrabbling, so to speak. I remember it was the beginning of the Internet and everybody was wondering what would be the killer application, so to speak. At Microsoft we spent years trying to define what would be the killer application on the Internet. It turned out to be e-mail, which was in front of us all the time. At the same time, as we all know when moving into the digital economy content is very important. That is what MIT Media Lab was all about. It was very exciting.

PhD students, principal investigators and others were studying there. They went to Cambridge on many occasions and worked with MIT MediaLab. That was a great transfer of knowledge. Likewise, many of those working in MIT came over to Dublin. It was a fantastic experience but then the dotcom crash happened and sponsorship was no longer available. It was completely reliant on public donations, as are the universities in the United States. It is staggering to see what individuals put into those organisations. It did not work here because of the time it was, which was very unfortunate.

In terms of what I learned from that and the reason I refer to it is because as a board member, it was an experience for me. I had been involved in managing research teams in London previously with Wordplex but it gave me an insight, especially into this demo-model, which is very valid, particularly in the ICT area. I picked up valuable lessons from that but I do not want to discuss what happened at board level.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. Keane wants to add to that?

Mr. Donal Keane:

In terms of the second question on the Action Plan for Jobs, SFI has a range of targets or responsibilities under the APJ. In some cases we are the lead named agency or partner and in others we are one of many. We report on those through our parent department on a quarterly basis in terms of what has and has not been achieved. We will copperfasten our 2014 targets within the next few weeks; we have a board meeting in less than two weeks. We are formally part of that whole process.

John Lyons (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Before we wind up the meeting does Ms Ann Riordan have any final comments?

Ms Ann Riordan:

I hope I will be given the position of chairman of SFI; I am only a nominee at the moment. If I am given the position I will be very excited, and I would love to appear again before the committee. I welcome the input of all the members of which I have made a note. If I come before the committee again I will have the answer to all the questions. I thank the members for all the time they have given us. I promised that I would give a little push for corporate governance, and SWiFT 3000 is the code.

I say that because maybe the committee would put it to any semi-State companies that come before it for corporate governance reasons. The people involved in putting the code together for the certification of organisations compliant with corporate governance include the Institute of Directors, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, University College Dublin, the Corporate Governance Association of Ireland, the Irish Small and Medium Enterprises Association, the Electricity Supply Board, FÁS and the Employment Authority, the Standards in Public Office Commission, the Financial Regulator, the Dublin Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators, and so on. We have managed to pull everybody involved with standards and corporate governance together. I wrote to every Minister at the time but the Government changed so I want to push it again from a corporate governance perspective. I thank the committee for allowing me to do that.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank Ms Riordan for coming in today, as well as Mr. Donal Keane and Mr. Brian Dalton. I assume that on Ms Riordan's nomination being successful she will be chairperson of Science Foundation Ireland and that we will meet her in the future to hear about progress to date.

Through the projects with which Ms Riordan has been involved, directly and indirectly, including the FIT initiative with the Ballymun Job Centre, Peter Davitt and Tramlines, Microsoft and so on, the committee knows the fantastic quality of the work that she will bring to SFI. We will expect, and know that we will see, good things from SFI because it will be in safe hands if Ms Riordan's nomination is successful. I thank her for coming here today.