Ms Mary Kennedy:

Again, I am not in the area of dealing with day-to-day claims. However, because I appeared before the joint committee last year when a lot of these issues came up, I spoke to a number of divisional managers who deal with the various local offices and so on. In fairness to the Department, various circulars have been issued to all the staff who deal with this kind of work. I obviously do not disagree with anything Deputy Bannon is saying because he has more experience on the ground but my information, from speaking to those divisional managers, is that staff are dealing with matters in a commonsensical and sensitive manner when carrying out means assessments and so on. I do not know precisely what is the rule in respect of the assets to which Deputy Bannon refers but I certainly can bring back that concern to my colleagues.

However, there are probably have been improvements over the years, members probably also are experiencing this themselves, in the manner in which the Department deals with such cases. While people who were self-employed were earning good incomes, over the years and in particular since the downturn, the message to all staff in the field who do such assessments obviously is to have regard to the downturn. As Senator Moloney observed, one cannot project a future income on the basis of a previous income that no longer is realisable. This message is out there and people are applying the more correct approach, which is that just because someone had a particular income last year, it does not mean in any way he or she will have a similar income this year. In fact, such people could have no income at all.

These points all have been accepted and my understanding is that a much more straightforward approach is being taken to means testing. I believe the figures probably bear this out, if one considers the numbers in receipt of jobseeker's allowance who formerly were self-employed. This appears to suggest the treatment people are receiving as part of the means assessment process must have had regard to the various issues raised by members today and that people are qualifying for jobseeker's allowance who perhaps might not have qualified in the past because a different means assessment arrangement was in place.

If issues remain outstanding, the best thing to do is to bring them to the attention of the Department. Obviously, if there are cases in which things are not being done as they should be, they can be addressed. However, I reiterate that I spoke to a number of colleagues working in the regional areas who have responsibility for the staff who carry out the means assessments. Particular issues were raised by members last year about being told to deregister with Revenue, for example, to surrender public service vehicle, PSV, licences and that kind of thing. It has been confirmed to me that this is not the case and in fact, one would never do this because so doing would prevent that person from having an ability to earn moneys. This of course is completely counter-productive to the business we are in because we are only there as an income support. Obviously, if someone has an ability to earn an income, we should be encouraging that and not taking away the means of so doing. This is very much the message out there and people are being dealt with in a very sensitive fashion, having regard to the changed circumstances.