Ray Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Can I cut across Ms Kennedy? In the old days before the Government came to power if a person was self-employed, he had to get figures from the previous year. For example, for 2013, a person would have to get figures for the 2011 and 2012 accounts. In many cases, as the Senator said, when a person goes out of business, he has no money. Basically, he is left out in the wilderness because he cannot pay the accountant to do up the figures and he cannot pay income tax because he has gone out of business. A person used to be in no man's land. Since the Minister has come in, she has dropped the threshold levels. It has changed. People are entitled to social protection now but before that was not the case. It was like a minefield to try to get this through. A person had to ensure all the payments were made. Then he had to go to the accountant to get the books done up but the accountant could leave the person with a bill for several thousand euro which the person simply did not have. He was in a catch-22 situation. It has changed.

We need a new system. I understand what Ms Kennedy is saying about the self-employed situation. There is no perfect glove that will fit social protection and self-employed situations but we need a system in place.