Pat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the representatives of the Marine Institute to the committee today, including Dr. Peter Heffernan, chief executive, Ms Caroline Bocqual, director of corporate services, Mr. Paul Connolly, director of fisheries, ecosystems and aquaculture management, Mr. Aengus Parsons, director of ocean science, and Mr. Mick Gillooly, director of ocean science and information services. Thank you for coming before the committee to discuss the 2011 annual report of the institute. I apologise on behalf of the Chairman, who is unavoidably absent today.

Before we begin I draw the attention of everyone to the fact that witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to the committee. However, if you are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in respect of a particular matter and you continue to so do, you are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of your evidence. You are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and you are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, you should not criticise or make charges against a person or persons or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I welcome you, Dr. Heffernan, and call on you to make your opening statement.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

Thank you, Chairman. It is a privilege for me, on behalf of the institute, to have the opportunity to meet the committee today. I will give a short overview of the general spread of work of the institute for those members who may not be familiar with us, although I know several are.

We will be happy to take questions or provide further detail on some of the topic areas I will cover rapidly.

The institute is a statutory body with key functions spanning what we generally understand as fishery science, advice to the Government on the environment, food safety issues, scientific and oceanographic services and understanding the marine ecosystem. One unit focuses on shipping and maritime development services and is responsible to the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and a corporate services function. We provide five key families of services for the Government, including scientific advice; monitoring and assessment services; preparation of strategic research planning and policy advice for the Government related to the marine. We manage and operate key national marine science infrastructure, including research vessels, unmanned submarines and data buoy networks. We conduct research and have succeeded very well in winning significant earnings from foreign competitive research programmes that provide substantial employment. We also fund research and design and advise the Government on funding programmes related to marine areas both by us and in conjunction with other Government parties. That is a very substantial part of our work to which I will allude in the presentation. A very important area of our work is mapping the seabed because more than 90% of our territory is land under the Atlantic Ocean.

We have a broad budget of €25 million in grants from the Government and an additional €11 million from sources such as competitive EU research programmes, while approximately 30% and above of our turnover is generated by non-voted income from the Government.

One of our key areas of service which has a very long track record in the Marine Institute and prior to its establishment is fishery science advice. Fisheries are living through a rapid change process, as many committee members are aware, through the reform of the Common Fisheries Policy which was secured during the Irish Presidency of the European Union. Ireland sits on some of the richest fisheries in all of the European Union. Approximately 1 million tonnes of fish are captured every year, with a value of €1.2 billion. Ireland's share of these fishing opportunities represents approximately 23% by tonnage and 17% by value. The Marine Institute works with international groups providing independent scientific advice for the management structure for the Common Fisheries Policy, a partnership between the Commission and member states. We provide annually the most comprehensive stock book showing the state of stocks in the Irish territories of relevance to Ireland. This is formulated in partnership with international scientists, but it is the envy of many countries in Europe because of the information it has provided for almost 20 years to successive Governments to negotiate on behalf of the State in the management of fish resources. The new Common Fisheries Policy will require significant development of science capacity and knowledge of the ecosystem approach and I am confident that the Marine Institute is well equipped to meet that challenge and has funded significant research to back it up.

In addition, we provide a wide range of services related to environmental food safety and the conditions within which the marine food produced within this country, 90% of which is exported, can access the market and have a good competitive standing for that business. Our services include food safety monitoring in conjunction with national and international food safety authorities. In 2011 we had a major success when, after several years of research, Ireland led the way in changing the regulatory monitoring programme EU-wide, moving away from mouse bio-assays to very sophisticated chemical analysis. That research was started and is conducted in the Marine Institute and we brought the regulatory authorities across Europe to a new regime which was signed off on by all stakeholders, regulatory authorities, governments and the Commission. That is a demonstration of the scientific calibre and capability within our teams. Fish health licensing support and advice, sea lice monitoring and research in all of these service areas are particularly important.

A matter of note which has featured in the newspapers this year concerns harmful algal blooms and their natural occurrence. In 2011 we started a significant research project for national funding and succeeded in winning a large EU award. Earlier this year that project, AZIMUTH, received the highest accolade of the COPERNICUS award for best earth-monitoring service in the European Union. This involves the ability to use ocean observation satellite monitoring to generate a predictive capacity for when there might be or might about to be harmful algal bloom to assist shellfish farmers in preparing for and managing their stock around that event which occurs naturally but is not easily predicted.

A new and emerging area of great significance and importance to Ireland and the global marketplace is where ICT meets the ocean. Ireland can really succeed because our industrial complex research expertise built up in universities can be applied in marine business opportunities, from fisheries to renewable energy and ocean energy development, through monitoring the ocean. The ocean to the west of us is strategically important not only to Europe but also to the world in order to understand climate change which we can study with new technology, new eyes. Ireland is very much to the forefront in Europe in the design of programmes to do this, working with multinationals and SMEs across the country and a range of university groups. This is an area that I believe will bear great fruit for Ireland.

Seachange is the name of the research funding programme for the period 2007 to 2014. Through it the Marine Institute has sequentially invested up to €60 million in creating new teams with expertise in areas such as computing, ICT, modelling sensor technologies, ecosystem approaches to fisheries biotechnology and bio-discovery. We have also catalysed the ability of other funding agencies and drawn in science funding from other bodies that would not traditionally have regarded the marine as an important area. We have been very successful, with several Irish universities, in winning record levels of EU funding in recent years. That funding has exceeded €60 million from all sources, which would rank the marine as the sixth largest funding area in the European funding programmes in the period of the seventh framework programme. It has created and supported over 150 jobs and there will be over 200 jobs before the programme is over. In the next seven years several hundred jobs will be created. These are jobs for graduates, like my son in Australia. The first job presents a significant opportunity in science and engineering and we are confident that these opportunities can be created through externally won resources in Ireland. This, to all intents and purposes, is like an export of services and generated on the basis of investments made wisely in Ireland, a capacity built in the past 20 years that has eliminated our deficit in that space and enabled us to compete with the best in the world in marine science and engineering.

Over 90% of Irish sovereign territory, over 200 million acres, is underneath the Atlantic Ocean. It is incredibly important for us to be competitive in the science, knowledge and ability to generate wide uses, prudent planning for and the ability to generate the socio-economic potential of that resource. Members may have read in the newspapers this morning about the discovery of a new biotope, as it was called, located in the south west corner almost at a 45° angle from the border between County Kerry and County Cork on what is a vertical cliff of over 700 m discovered by the Irish research vessel, Celtic Explorer, using an unmanned submarine called John Holland, with a team of researchers led from NUI Galway in collaboration with Queen's University, Belfast and international partners.

This is a revolutionary discovery, details of which are published today, but the funding for that work was commenced in 2011. The team which created that knowledge was aided by funding from the Marine Institute the previous year by means of the Beaufort award for biodiscovery. These unique habitats in deep high pressure environments house significant opportunities for development of pharmaceutical and medical applications. The mix of animals is unique such as oysters at a depth of 700 m, other shellfish and a mix of corals that could be centuries old. This is a very significant discovery. The knowledge it will create will be capable of winning and creating jobs in Ireland in the years ahead.

The seabed survey is the largest civilian underwater mapping project in the world. Ireland is at the forefront of this sphere of activity and we are executing the project in co-operation with the Geological Survey of Ireland. The European Commission has cited the project as the exemplar of how to map a nation's territory. Commissioner Damanaki wants this method of mapping of territory to be adopted by other European states.

I could show the committee images from 15 years ago when Ireland was "out-invested" by a ratio of 40:1 in mapping the knowledge and also in the science and information on fish stocks in these territories. We have moved from that behind-the-ball scenario to the current position where Ireland is conducting nearly 60% of the research in our sovereign territory. That is a massive turnaround of the equation in Ireland's favour in that time. The two research vessels operated by the Marine Institute have been fundamental to that achievement.

Members will be aware that the Government has created a horizontal mechanism across government to enable policies to be developed more cohesively. It is a common problem in all European and international nations that many elements of the marine portfolio are housed in some administrations in up to 12 Departments - across eight in our case. The horizontal mechanism aims to join these areas as best as possible against the reality of vertical management in Departments. The quarterly reports on the implementation of this plan are available on our website, www.ouroceanwealth.ie. An annual report will be issued in 2014, with plans for an annual conference, showing the progress achieved by Ireland in this area. I emphasise that during the Irish Presidency the horizontal mechanism which is supported by the Marine Institute enabled Ireland to present to Europe far-reaching and leading positions in terms of the application of science and knowledge to marine resource development. During the Presidency it resulted in the Atlantic plan, with integrated maritime policy being agreed to and deemed a success. It has resulted in significant funding opportunities which will be announced in Horizon 2020 - a funding programme of €72 billion from the European Commission for the next seven years. The capacities being built in Ireland are very well aligned and targeted to take advantage of these competitive funding opportunities. We have been investing in capacity-building for the past seven years in order to position ourselves well and we have significantly influenced the direction of Europe's Atlantic policy. We had a tremendous success at the end of May in having the joint agreement negotiated between the European Union, Canada and the United States on a transatlantic ocean research alliance, signed in Galway and witnessed by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Simon Coveney. This achievement was greatly assisted by Irish diplomacy during the Irish Presidency. This augurs well for bilateral agreements with both the United States and Canada and also in the context of broader EU collaborations. The funding package for Horizon 2020 will be voted on this week in the European Parliament and announced in December. We are confident that it will greatly benefit competitive proposals from Ireland.

I brought with me a three minute clip from National Geographic which I thought would be of great interest to the committee. I must apologise, but, unfortunately, the system here is unable to run it in the time available. I guarantee it would be three minutes well spent if the members were to watch the CD. It shows the Irish national research vessel travelling halfway between Ireland and the United States to a site halfway between the Azores and Iceland. On that part of the Atlantic sea floor that splits apart by the height of a man in a lifetime new rocks from volcanic activity have been created. For the first time, in July 2011, a team of scientists from Cork, Galway, the Geological Survey of Ireland and a UK team from Southampton made a discovery of hydro-thermal vents in the area. This was from the Irish research vessel, which is funded by the Marine Institute, in deploying an Irish unmanned submarine down a mountain face 3 km deep in the middle of the Atlantic to discover these black smokers, which are pillars of rock - new volcanic rock - up to 40 m high. It has been named the Moytura field which comes from the plain of the pillars in Irish mythology. These pillars produce black smokers which look, to all intents and purposes, like smoke, but it is actually water at up to 400 degrees centigrade. It is black and enriched with methane and sulfides that would be toxic to 98% of life on the planet. However, the area contains a huge life system which survives at these temperatures and toxicities. The system is very important in understanding how the ocean works and also for new pharmaceutical, medical and biotechnological applications. This was an Irish team demonstrating its ability, with Irish infrastructure, to conduct world-class ocean research. This achievement was broadcast globally by National Geographic in late 2012.

I hope I have not exceeded my time allocation in making this presentation. The Marine Institute is very positive about the potential for Ireland to generate new income, as well as socioeconomic and environmental benefits through understanding the oceans. I am happy to take questions from members.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Dr. Heffernan for his presentation and commend him for his enthusiasm for the work of the staff of the Marine Institute. Once again, I regret the €1 billion contribution, in the form of free fish, as shown on slide No. 3, which we give to our European partners every year and which is not recognised. As a member of the European Union for 40 years, we have now made a contribution of €40 billion in today's money. This is often not recognised when people talk about what we get from the European Union. It is never too late to recognise that we also make a significant contribution in kind to it.

Dr. Heffernan has provided some of the answers on what is the issue for the committee. Relative to how other countries carry out research on the poly-use of ocean energy and marine life and plants, how does our investment rate in this very important sector, taking account of the size of our territory? What are the most important issues on which the Government could provide assistance for the Marine Institute? What should we do to help the institute in its work to develop the potential of the oceans? Would further investment reap long-term dividends in terms of economic development? It is a question of using scarce resources wisely. We have put money into biotechnology and ICT.

Is more money needed and, if it were given, which areas would the delegates prioritise? From where and when would the economic dividend come to the people?

Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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I congratulate the delegates on the tremendously exciting discovery at the Goban Spur. I am trying to figure out how oysters can survive and spawn in these water temperatures and at such depths. It seems to go against much of what fishermen know. Will the delegates elaborate on the discovery and its potential? With the shelf wall around the Porcupine Bank and further south down to the Shamrock Canyon in mind, are there further potential discoveries to be made on cliff faces, at depths of water and so on?

I assume the Marine Institute is involved in determining whether wave or tidal energy can be part of the energy generation industry. I am aware of what is happening with wave energy projects, but how advanced is the tidal aspect and have specific locations been targeted in that regard? What is the delegates' assessment of the potential in this regard?

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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I join colleagues in congratulating staff at the Marine Institute on the discovery at the Goban Spur. It will be interesting to hear how that discovery might be further developed and the potential spin-off for the State.

The delegates mentioned their involvement in shipping and maritime services development in collaboration with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. Have they examined the requirements for offshore wind energy project development in terms of services such as tender boats and the potential such developments could reap in terms of employment and investment opportunities for businesses along the coast?

I am aware that the institute monitors sea lice levels in the context of the threat to fish farming. Are the delegates conducting any research into safeguarding against natural predators? I understand work is ongoing in Scotland, for example, on recycle aquaculture systems, RASs. Is there potential to develop these types of system here?

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Vice Chairman for allowing me to attend the meeting.

I congratulate Dr. Heffernan and his colleagues on the discovery at the Goban Spur. The images from the depths are dramatic. The Marine Institute's vessels are no strangers to my community in Castletownbere and it is a huge source of pride to see the research vessels Celtic Explorer and Celtic Voyager tied up in the port. The significant increase in investment in the institute is money well spent, although I am sure Dr. Heffernan will say additional funding is always needed.

The economic impact of the marine environment is core to the institute's work, which includes its assessment of the Natura 2000 sites along the coast. I understand up to 80% of our exploitable sites are Natura 2000 sites. Will Dr. Heffernan indicate whether there is or could possibly be a resource issue in this regard within the Marine Institute? From the institute's own assessment, as indicated at a recent conference, the most it is getting through is four or five sites per annum. This should be seen in a context where there are in the region of 50 or 60 bays to get through. This is a significant inhibiting factor in developing any type of reasonable aquaculture industry. Certainly, it would be expected from all sides, whether one is for or against aquaculture, that the most up-to-date information on the economic impact of this and other industries which impact on the Natura 2000 sites would be published. Getting though only four or five per year is perhaps suggestive of an overly cautious approach. It certainly seems far too slow. I am not blaming the institute for this, but I do wonder whether it is a resource issue.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

I thank members for their questions. With regard to the relative distribution of the share of fisheries resources, the allocation of the shared pie under the Common Fisheries Policy is relatively stable and not generally up for substantial renegotiation. Having said that, I have made a pledge to every Minister I have served that investing in science will give them a strong suit in the context of the negotiations process. I have never had a Minister complain about the quality of the sciencific advice and tools they were given as they went in to negotiate. That is the best answer I can give to that question.

Several members asked about resources and whether more were required. It would be a rare chief executive officer who would deny more resources would not be very helpful. I am cognisant, however, of the reality of the economic crisis the nation is going through. In the context in which we find ourselves, the commitment to maintain science investments across the board has, relatively speaking, been strong. We have had reductions in our budget, in common with other relatively similar organisations, and it has challenged us greatly in terms of our ability as an organisation to adapt. We have maintained our full family of front-line services against the backdrop of a requirement to drive efficiencies. We have suffered staff losses and budget cuts, but I am confident that we can turn a corner in the period ahead and continue to increase our proportion of earnings from international sources. It is a matter of pride for us that the vessels Deputy Noel Harrington mentioned not only are of great service to the State but have also assisted us in meeting the challenge of the fiscal crisis by generating solid income for the institute, thus helping to minimise the cost of the economic downturn in recent years. We have, for instance, developed charter arrangements with governments in Germany, Newfoundland and Labrador that have worked very well for all parties.

We will in the next quarter be renewing the research plan for the period 2014 to 2020. Members mentioned ICT, biotechnology and ocean energy as areas that have been prioritised. We intend to maintain that prioritisation because they are areas in which a sustained effort and cumulative build-up of capacity will have a significant payback for the State. Where ICT and biotechnology can be applied in the ocean sphere is where we can get a real routing of these multinational capacities in Ireland. We are not going to helicopter out the resources at the Goban Spur. There is great potential in that special mix, which is possible on a small island, which sees a cluster effect of large multinationals engaging with small Irish companies. It is a significant advantage to be able to get all of these people in one room, as we do annually with more than 80 companies. I am very heartened that the research prioritisation exercise has given a higher priority than ever before in the history of the State to marine areas, something we have advocated for the past 20 years.

It was particularly encouraging to hear the director general of Science Foundation Ireland state at a recent conference that ocean energy was a potential game changer economically for the country. The announcement by SFI last week of funding of more than €29 million for a research centre builds on a programme of earlier investments by the Marine Institute and our development of a strategy in this area. Wave energy will be the most significant element of energy generation in this country in the long term, with offshore wind energy being the main aspect in the near term.

In Ireland wave energy will be the biggest component in the long term, offshore wind energy will be the biggest in the near term, and a smaller component of tidal energy resources, particularly on the east coast, areas of the Shannon and off the coast of Northern Ireland, are particularly promising. We must have the confidence and perseverance to sustain the investment in ocean energy to reap the reward. Uniquely on this planet, Ireland, together with Scotland, has the greatest natural advantage in wave energy anywhere in the world. A former Secretary of Energy in the US, a Nobel laureate, Dr. Chu, said to me on a recent visit that, for Ireland, ocean energy is a no-brainer while for America, it is one for only a few states. This is a unique opportunity for us. It will take a level of scientific endeavour, commitment and investment to make it pay off but I would strongly advocate that we continue with the plan in this area.

With regard to the discovery at the Goban Spur, I do not want in any way to steal the glory from the scientists from NUIG, who made the recent discovery on the ships with partners from other areas. This finding is very important on two fronts. It shows that an Irish-led expedition can make such a discovery. It is a discovery of a new area of intense life on a vertical cliff face and it needs to be further developed. This was a first expeditionary study and more follow-up work is required to map the extent of that type of life form and its distribution and that will be done. The area of biotechnology in terms of ocean energy has a medium to long-term economic payback but we have a lot territory and it is well worth our while to sustain the effort in that area.

Moving on to the shipping and transport area, a study by our IMDO and the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland of the service industries and ports' opportunities to service an emerging wind energy and ocean energy offshore component was carried out in the past year and I can provide that to the secretariat. That work has been done. There is not currently a study in Ireland on RAS in terms of sea lice as a natural predator but it is one of the areas that has been suggested to us should be examined in the next phase of our research funding, starting in 2014 and beyond. We will engage in a public consultation process in order that all interested parties can identify from their perspective the areas that should receive a research focus and we will take those into consideration in crafting where we apply the available resources in the years 2014 to 2020.

The explorer and voyager vessels have had many very positive experiences of docking and getting services in Castletownbere. We have survived economically really okay through the downturn, compensated by our ability to adapt and generate income internationally. We now have a greater ability to compete in Europe and have the flexibility to employ people based on resources, one of which is from a source that is a very significant element of our business model. We have been given that sanction in recent months which unlocks one of our hands in competing in European context. I can complain and advocate for resources but I am mindful of the words of a mentor of mine in America who imparted to me the guiding principle that he never heard anyone whine their way to success.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Harrington also asked about the Natura sites.

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Can we expect greater effort to be made on the process of evaluating and assessing or completing the designation of those Natura sites?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

I apologise for having overlooked that question. In terms of the stage we are at on the Natura sites, as I am sure the Deputy is well aware, Ireland was faced after a court judgment of having to play a significant catch up and was in the scenario of being a test case for the rest of Europe in developing the ability to generate conservation objectives for Natura designated areas in the marine. That meant undertaking the most intensive data gathering and surveying and resurveying, as required, over the last three-year period. To be fair to the Departments involved, even in the economic downturn, they found resources, additional to the voted income to the institute, to fund that work. We have, through a combination of in-house capacity and outsourced work, executed a three-year intensive roadmap to gather the information. That data gathering exercise will be completed this year. To the best of my knowledge, as of the end this year there will be bays with conservation appropriate assessments for up to 200 licences and by the first quarter of next year we will have close to 300 licences in areas with appropriate assessments. The really hard catch-up work at the outset will be completed this year and that will enable the system to move forward. Appropriate assessment involves three steps, namely, the gathering of the scientific information, the National Parks and Wildlife Service then sets the conservation objective and in respect of any licensed activity or applications, we will advise the parent department, which is the licensing authority, an appropriate assessment based on those two previous steps and that is then fed into the consideration of any licences.

Noel Harrington (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Given that Dr. Heffernan said that Ireland is a test case, can we expect that as the institute works through the process of gathering the information, it will become easier and quicker to progress on from that stage?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

That is a fair judgment. All parties will have more confidence with it having gone through the earlier stages. The national authorities have to interface with the European authorities on this at the early stages but I am confident that Ireland having come from being in the test case scenario can be repositioned as the country that has the most experience, knowledge and ability to license as we move forward in a way that is compatible with the very onerous requirements of the European legislation.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I call Senator Mooney.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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On the question of wave energy, is the Marine Institute involved in research off the west coast of Belmullet in County Mayo?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

We operate and work closely with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland in the development of the plan for ocean energy development. We operate a quarter scale wave energy device testing site in Galway Bay. That site will be broadband cabled and will become an ocean observation site next year. We also work with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland and the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on the development of the full-scale test site off the coast at Belmullet. The site surveys have been done and that site has been designated for a grid connected, full-scale energy device testing centre.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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The reason I asked that question is that I am a member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly and we have just completed a report on wave and wind energy. During the course of evidence gathering, we visited Kirkwall in the Orkney Islands where there are a number of research sites. A number of international companies are operating a variety of different technologies. I understand that this technology is at a very embryonic stage. The comparison put to us was that they were at the stage the Wright brothers were at in terms of aviation development. The technology in this respect is that far back. Two questions arose during that visit, one related to the siting of the research centre in Belmullet and it was pointed out that it was the wrong place because the waves were too high to give a proper assessment and it was suggested that Fenit in Kerry would be a much more acceptable site. I do not know whether that issue has come up in the course of discussions.

The other question that arose related to co-operation in this area between the UK and Ireland. We do not seem to be co-operating as much perhaps as we should be, at least that was a perception. The assembly is focusing very much on our experience at Kirkwall, where five international companies are involved. As Dr. Heffernan said, the Irish location is a no-brainer because we have the most sustainable and most potentially lucrative wave energy resource in the world. I am curious as to what relationship, if any, there is between the Marine Institute and those various bodies and particularly about the UK experience in this area.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

We are working closely with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland.

We seconded one of our leading experts to help develop the ocean energy development plan. There are three elements involved in going from an idea on a lab bench out to a full-scale device and the infrastructure there has been built up as per the strategy. We have a world-class centre being fully developed in Ringaskiddy in Cork as part of the collaboration between the Naval Service, Cork Institute of Technology, CIT, and University College Cork, UCC. That has received a substantial amount of funding through Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, building on a decade of funding from the institute. There is a full test laboratory for modelling, designing and working with innovators and inventors. It is world class. The next step is quarter scale. The site is up and running in Galway Bay and will be enhanced and improved next year with the deployment of a broadband cable and new sensor technologies all around the devices to do such things as measure sound from the devices and to understand the environmental interplay.

The third key element as part of the strategy designed was to have a full-scale test site available and connected to the grid to really test the devices when they are gone from a lab set up in Cork to a relatively sheltered site. If I am not mistaken, on that site we have had waves of up to 7 m, 8 m and beyond in Galway Bay so they are getting a pretty good quarter scale test. Anywhere on the west coast gives one a good test. Even though I am a Mayo man and there is nothing between Mayo and Fenit in the context of the Belmullet site, a comprehensive study was carried out by the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland, SEAI, to look at potential sites for the full-scale test site and, all things considered, Belmullet was chosen.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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Has Dr. Heffernan heard any criticism of the decision?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

I have not heard any.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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It has been said that the height of the waves is much too high for the type of technology that is currently under way. That is the message we got.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

I had not heard such criticism. I heard suggestions about other sites but when one is doing a comprehensive assessment there will of course be parties that have interests in different areas. An independent assessment was carried out.

Reference was made to the Orkneys in the context of collaboration with the United Kingdom. Two weeks ago we had a session in Belfast with Invest Northern Ireland on SmartOcean which embraces the application of sensor technologies and computing services to ocean energy, among other sectors. They have a deployed tidal system in play in Strangford Lough already. The Orkneys have what is still a very remote location and it is up and running but the combined package in Ireland will in time prove itself to be very competitive. I am impressed with the speed with which the Scottish authorities moved in the early stages. I compliment them on that. I see many opportunities for this to become an agenda item for the Irish-UK council because there is tremendous mutual interest in this area. They have a similar resource capacity. Both of us have the potential to be exporters of this energy. If it is captured it is beyond the consumption capacity of this island to take all the renewable energy that could be produced. In the medium to long term it is truly of a game-changer scale economically for Ireland to be able to export energy but it will take time.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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The report has gone to both the Government the British Government. That is the normal process. I hope something positive will emerge from it. One of the key areas is co-operation between the two jurisdictions.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

We would advocate that. We are very good partners in many other spheres of science. While there would be an element of local competition the market is a much bigger one.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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The technology is at an early stage.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

Absolutely.

Paschal Mooney (Fianna Fail)
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It is important to have co-operation.

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

The key attribute of designing support nationally and investing in science is not to try to pick the winner. In a sense, one has to create the environment where the best ideas will be tested. They can break it, make it and make it better so as to encourage people to fail and gain. That is the formula.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Two sites in particular were identified as being suitable for wind energy. Could Dr. Heffernan provide a little more detail on where they are? What is being done and what could be done to hasten their exploitation to provide the levels of renewable energy described?

Given the importance of the type of work done by Dr. Heffernan, and the hope we all have that there would be considerable growth in the area which would extend to the private sector, does the Marine Institute take on people on the JobBridge scheme or other schemes so that we could equip young people with the skills necessary to drive the sector forward?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

Deputy McNamara mentioned two sites. Does he refer to wind, wave or tidal energy?

Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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Was it tidal or wave energy Dr. Heffernan mentioned?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

The sites I mentioned are the test sites. The quarter scale test site is just off Spiddal in Galway Bay. Early stage developments are to be tested relatively inexpensively and in an area that is secure and around which there is much instrumentation. We operate that in conjunction with the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland.

If one imagines the life cycle, one would work with the engineers, designers and architects in the centre in Cork. People bring their own ideas and they evolve. A test model is built and tested in a wave tank. It is then exposed in a model system to all the forces that might be experienced. The next stage is to get investors involved to bring the development to a quarter scale. That is tested in Galway Bay. The grid-connected site is just to the north west of Belmullet. As I understand it, that is to be developed in the next 18 months. They are the two test sites.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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What are the sites for tidal energy?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

In Strangford Lough in the North they have a full testing facility for tidal energy and it is deployed and operational at the moment. We will provide the committee with the report. A report was done to map out the potential capturable energy for wave, wind and tidal energy. The area I am familiar with is wave and tidal energy. A number of areas would have potential in those regards.

We offer opportunities in a sensitive way to suitable candidates through JobBridge. We have had more than 30 such positions since the scheme started. More than 70% have gone on to jobs or further education. It is greatly beneficial to the institute. They are brilliant people. They are getting a good opportunity and 70% of them have been able to use it as a platform to either get into a higher education course or another job in the past two years.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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In terms of the quarter scale site in Galway Bay, is that the site where the Wavebob is located? How many prototypes are being tested and have there been any preliminary results as to the potential for generating electricity?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

At one point we had two devices on site at the same time. A number of developers have run into the classic valley of death on the funding cycle. The information is commercially sensitive so I do not know how the individual devices have proven. The market will test that in terms of how well they can raise finances. To the best of my knowledge there were five indigenous devices in various stages of development when last I checked. It is something that will be very much a trial and error process for some time to come.

Thomas Pringle (Donegal South West, Independent)
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Is it solely up to the market to decide whether a project will move on to the next stage or will the State fund or support any initiatives?

Dr. Peter Heffernan:

I understand the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources intends to update the ocean energy development plan in the future. As to how and what incentives, to the best of my knowledge it continues to support prototype development. It will continue to provide support and through Science Foundation Ireland, SFI, various Government sources are supporting the laboratory-based system in Cork, the quarter-scale test site and the operation of the full-scale test site. In a way, the biggest responsibility for the State is to create that infrastructure to test and demonstrate, as well as an environment in which it is encouraging of this sector. I believe there is a strongly encouraging perspective on ocean energy.

Pat Deering (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I thank the witnesses, namely, Dr. Heffernan, Ms Caroline Bocquel, Dr. Paul Connolly, Mr. Aengus Parsons and Mr. Mick Gillooly, for their attendance and presentation, which was very worthwhile.