Mr. John McKeon:

In regard to the success of the measures, as Ms Vaughan said, it is probably too early to say whether the Intreo approach to the process of group engagement, early engagement, one-to-one profiling is delivering over and above other approaches. We started to roll out the approach only last October and currently we have 15 offices live out of 60. It takes some time working in any office to try to assess it properly. We have set ourselves some targets and performance against those targets. It is in the pack circulated to the committee. We set targets against, for example, moving people from long-term unemployment into employment. When we set the target the run rate at that stage would have been that 37,500 people would have moved out of long-term unemployment to employment. We set a target doubling that number to 75,000 and we are on track to reach that target. We set ourselves a target on reducing the persistence rate, that is, the rate at which people who are short-term unemployed continue into long-term unemployment. We are on track with that target. Similarly, we set a target to increase the exit rates of people who are long-term unemployed. In aggregate, they are targets which will measure the overall impact. We set ourselves what, I believe, are ambitious targets on each of those relative to performance and we are on track with them. There are some where we are not on track. They are mainly input measures such as the number of people on scheme places and so on.

With regard to the progression rates, the most recent evaluation we have had done of any scheme is of JobBridge. We commissioned a report by Indecon Economic Consultants, a specialist consultancy firm. It tendered for and won the contract. It does much work for various governments, not just the Irish Government. It estimated that the progression rate into employment is 61%, which is about double the European average for such schemes. It appears to be working well.

In regard to the PRSI incentive scheme, members will probably be aware we have changed it to the JobsPlus scheme which commenced in July. Initial indications are that it is working well. There is a lower rate of PRSI for salaries up to a certain level. I think that is what was meant by the reference to person centred. That is a difficult one to judge. Certainly there would be some who argue, for example, in Germany that it is better to have two people doing one job, rather than one person doing one job. In other words, two people are taken out of unemployment. The European Union would push that line. Whether one considers it to be a perverse incentive or a correct incentive, I am not sure that it is an incentive at all. There is no real hard evidence that employers are deliberately cutting salaries off at a certain level. I cannot see it and I have looked at the numbers.

On the apprenticeship issue, a review of apprenticeships is being undertaken by the Department of Education and Skills. It is certainly looking at the German model as being one issue. In respect of the German model, which has been much quoted, it is important to be aware that it has been in place since the 18th century and has to do with guilds and chambers of commerce and is very much a tripartite relationship between employers, the public sector and trade unions in towns and villages. That is the construct for it. It is also based on streaming people at 14 and 15 years of age into either vocational education or into education which ultimately leads to the third level stream. In Ireland, certainly in the past, we took a decision to move into the third level type stream. As a personal aside, it would be a very brave person who would tell the mammies and daddies of Ireland that their children are not going to university, that they are going the vocational route instead. That is what is done in Germany. It is a serious issue and one that should be looked at and, obviously, the Department of Education and Skills is looking at it.