Ms Anne Vaughan:

Absolutely. The Deputy's final question referred to the penalty rates of payment where we reduce people's payments.

Overall - this is the cumulative total - more than 3,900 people have had a penalty applied to them and, since the start of the year, more than 2,000 have had a penalty applied. As I mentioned, the trick is to get people to engage and, by doing so, get them off the penalty.