Mr. Ethan Gutmann:

Mr. Matas can speak on the legislative efforts better than I can. To some extent the Chinese Government, or at least the Chinese medical establishment, appears to be offering the West a deal that it will end the practice over some kind of timeframe, but that depends on how the West behaves. It could be fast or slow. In other words, it could be between three and five years or one and two years. Various statements have been made and it depends on whether we ask rude questions.

Another part of the deal is that there will be no verification and no mention of the prisoners of conscience problem. That is done and it is finished, if it happened. Their view is that it never happened. The West is expected to accept that the party has certain taboos and lines that it cannot cross. It is not even clear that if we do not mention the prisoners of conscience problem we will have reform. How can one reform something when one has not reached the root of the problem or acknowledged it as a possibility? We do not know that it would affect the prisoners of conscience problem.

I must say that Mr. Matas and I - I do not want to put words in his mouth - are here today for the prisoners of conscience, not because we are concerned about prisoners, rapists and murderers filling out the proper forms. I have outlined the deal and the West can either accept the offer in exactly the way the Chinese want or with reservations. The way to signal that we are accepting it with reservations is to stop and do what Israel has done. Israel has been the only country to stop all organ tourism. Ending organ tourism makes the statement that no one can get an organ from China until we know, in explicit detail, where organs are sourced. Five years down the line that may be true and, if so, it will be an historical point. I have outlined my recommendation.