Mr. David Matas:

The question was raised of how consent for organ sourcing would help. The sources of organs in China do not consent and, for example, the Falun Gong members are not asked to donate their organs. They are not even being told they are to be killed for their organs. Nevertheless, these people are executed through organ extraction. That claim comes from my research and Mr. Gutmann has similar findings for Uighurs. Even the consent of prisoners sentence to death is not meaningful because of the environment, and those in the transplantation profession argue that organs should not be sourced from prisoners sentenced to death.

There are a number of different initiatives going ahead in Ireland, with one being the human tissue Bill. It was proposed in 2009. The Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) (Amendment) Bill 2013 is also dealing with the issue. The European Union (Quality and Safety of Human Organs intended for Transplantation) Regulations 2012 were also passed last year. All three deal with this issue but none deals with the matter in the extra-territorial context. In Irish legislation, the Criminal Justice (Female Genital Mutilation) Act 2012 penalises participation in female genital mutilation done abroad if the person is Irish and returns to this State after the crime. That is the sort of legislation Ireland needs in dealing with transplant abuse and lack of consent abroad. These are both horrendous practices and could be treated in the same manner in terms of legislation.

I have been to the European Parliament a couple of times and I have visited the European Commission. Most recently, I attended the European Parliament in December last year and I said to those people what I am saying to the members now about extra-territorial legislation. The response was that the European Parliament does not legislate but rather recommends to member states, and if something is to be done we must go to the member states. Some months ago a policy paper emerged from the Italian bioethics council, which is part of the Italian Government, and it analysed the problem from a European perspective. It indicated that this is a problem both in Italy and across Europe.

There are different ways of dealing with this. There was mention of dialogue between Europe and China, the last instance of which was in June. We met representatives of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade yesterday and spoke about that dialogue. There are many instances of such dialogue and, frankly, they are not very useful. They may be useful in showing concern but they are not useful in moving China's policy. This is not just a China problem but it is a global issue. It would be wonderful if we could end this abuse in China but it is certainly within our power to end complicity with the abuse in our own countries. We should be focusing on that.

When it comes to transplant tourism, China is not necessarily hostile. After our report emerged, the country changed policy in order to give priority to locals. That does not solve the problem of sourcing but it means that we are not coming up against China in trying to combat transplant tourism.