Professor Peadar Kirby:

The Deputy asked a series of broad questions. He is correct about the challenge to governance. One of the reasons we are in the current crisis is that the previous governance structures failed when faced with very strong actions by certain private economic interests.

Obviously, the same could happen here. That is why I started by emphasising the absolute importance of political leadership. According to the scientists if we fail on this issue we are making the planet uninhabitable for our children and grandchildren. It is that serious.

We have never faced such a serious challenge in human history. President Obama showed last week that we urgently need radical political leadership. By radical, I mean a political leadership that has the courage to tell its citizens what we are facing into and what actions have to be taken. That is the reason I recommend the committee watch President Obama because he did emphasise the challenge of what scientists are telling us. As political leaders and as societies we just have to face the issue. We cannot continue to kick the ball down the road. That is the first thing I would say on the question about vested interests. However, I will add just one point. Of course, there are strong vested interests that are trying to avoid facing the facts but, ultimately, they are you and me, the citizens, who are finding it very hard to face the changes to the privileged lifestyle we have compared to many other people on the globe that this will entail. We cannot just point the finger at big business, we must also point the finger at all our values and lifestyles. Therefore, leadership has to come in terms of how we live our lives.

Deputy Stanley asked three other specific questions, the first of which was on targets. I agree completely with his view that we need much more immediate targets. Five-year targets are not adequate, we need annual targets. This will be a progressive move towards the progressive reduction of greenhouse gases to reach a target within the next 37 years of reduction to about 90%, if we are serious about the issue. We cannot keep putting this off to 2020 and 2030, we have to start now. I strongly recommend that be part of the climate change Bill. We are failing in the challenge if we do not introduce targets, in fact there are no targets in the Bill as it currently stands. I am not only calling for the inclusion of targets but targets much more immediate than for 2020, 2030 and 2050.

In regard to the expert advisory group, I recommend that it be supplemented by a scientific advisory group but not appointed by Government. I suggest that the task be given to the heads of the seven public universities to appoint that group and that the group would share with the Government and the Minister responsible and, ultimately the Taoiseach, who takes responsibility for action on climate change. I suggest that the advisory group be appointed both by the Government but also by the scientific advisory group. The scientific advisory group would advise on the science. Scientific evidence is changing dramatically, almost year by year, and we need to be up to date on how urgently the science is telling us we need to act. We also need a group to advise on policy. That group could include some scientists but the Deputy rightly said it should also include social scientists because this is, ultimately, a social challenge as much as a challenge of hard science and technology. He also mentioned stakeholders. The key stakeholders in society should be represented. Over and above those comments, I would be willing to discuss how best any member thinks this would be constituted. Members know better than I do how the committees of the House operate but it needs to have these different dimensions.

Deputy Stanley also mentioned all-Ireland action. Of course all-Ireland action is needed on this issue as is all-Europe action and global action is needed on this but we cannot continue putting it off to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC. We also have to face the challenges in each of our societies to deal with these issues. We need the global actions that are taking place through the UNFCCC and actions at national and local level because these are also challenges for local governance.