Mr. Shane Rooney:

I work in the adult education guidance service of County Carlow VEC which is changing its name to Kilkenny-Carlow ETB. I am here to address facilitating employment opportunities in the south east.

There are 40 adult education guidance services nationally. As set out in the operational guidelines from the Department of Education and Skills, we offer a guidance service to adults which includes impartial adult education information, one-to-one guidance and group guidance to help people to make informed educational, career and life choices. There are offices in Carlow, Kilkenny and Dungarvan, while outreach work takes place in rural towns, including Castlecomber, Callan, Wexford town, Waterford city and various other locations. My service has three staff members and 2,000 beneficiaries come through our doors annually. Last year we had 512 sit-down, one-to-one appointments, met 643 people in groups and fielded 921 general public inquiries. Our service is provided for adults and young people aged 16 years and over with low or no formal qualifications and low literacy levels.

The Government's activation schemes have identified priority groups with whom we can work, including in particular the long-term unemployed and the under employed. People who are working part-time but could benefit from full-time employment or better opportunities for employment and training form a significant part of our work. We also meet people in the workplace who have basic skill needs and education and training boards are important in providing for such individuals. We also deal with people aged 16 years or older and those in adult literacy and community education programmes.

I will now speak about the challenges for the south east from an adult education guidance perspective. I am sure members have studied the Forfás south east region employment plan, Spotlight on the South East, which was published in 2011. Compared to the national average, the south east region has a higher concentration of people with limited educational attainment in both the labour force and the unemployed cohort. The fall off in opportunities in construction and traditional manufacturing has had a particularly hard impact on certain occupational groups in crafts and production operatives. That trade and technical training gap has not been filled. In 2008, our service dealt with 80 adults who applied for third level courses through the CAO. That is a higher number than in any subsequent year. These are individuals who recognise that prospects in construction are limited and hope to find new career opportunities. The Forfás report argues that a focus on activation measures, career advice and progression pathways for the unemployed is needed, including upskilling with accredited qualifications. It is a huge step for our adult clients to return to education. If someone has been out of education for 20 years, he or she probably has a negative attitude towards education.

Reintroduction into employment is a slow and steady process for someone who has been unemployed for years. It takes time to rebuild confidence and self-belief but nothing succeeds like success. We begin with short courses aimed at building confidence and re-familiarising clients with routine and challenge. Much of our work involves educating unemployed clients who may come from a family background of long-term unemployment. How can one progress and achieve in the education system when there is no family history of formal education? We set out short, medium and long-term goals for clients and regard any academic success as positive, be it FETAC level 3, 4 or 5. If I got €5 every time a client told me he or she had hands-on experience but lacked the paperwork to prove it, I would be a rich man. We need to find ways of incentivising learners and unemployed clients who have extensive experience to return to education and the workforce. For an unemployed person returning to education, there is a big gap between certifications and qualifications.

In regard to the policy challenges, many of our clients are not aware of the opportunities available to them. The Forfás reports are not filtering down to the general populace and clients may have limited awareness of science, technology or enterprise. They need to be shown how to avail of such opportunities through training. There is a specific need for clients aged between 40 years and 50 years to be given confidence boosters through, for example, exemptions from certain modules in recognition of prior learning and experience. Compared to countries like Germany and Holland, there is limited recognition in Ireland of prior experience. This is one way of inviting clients who have extensive hands-on experience back into the workforce and giving them a leg up. We could recognise some of their informal experience while also persuading them to achieve formal certifications in other areas. Early school leavers require basic skill acquisition tools and to learn how to learn. There is a gap between unemployment and certain high technology positions but it is often perceived as much wider than is actually the case. Once clients have the right attitude they can benefit from education. In many cases, it is lack of affirmation and self-belief rather than lack of ability that discourages adults from returning to education. Support and encouragement from adult guidance services and others is especially important when clients begin the process of developing their skills. As they persevere in education and develop independence and confidence in their skills and abilities, they no longer require the same level of support. They can move up the national framework of qualifications and gain unemployment while also contributing more to their local communities.

Our clients tend to have developed their skills on the job but they lack paperwork. Many of them have only partially completed apprentices or college degree courses. They may have left education to take up jobs during the boom period. Recognition of prior learning would be of great benefit in terms of bringing them back into education. Programmes should be designed to build confidence and reintroduce capable people to the workforce. For example, Waterford Institute of Technology's access programme, which runs between 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. a couple of nights per week, is very beneficial in helping our clients to learn how to learn and build confidence. Courses should be provided on a flexible basis, particularly during evening hours. At present clients must finance themselves on many of the lifelong learning courses. Under employed people in particular need educational opportunities in the evenings. Springboard is going some way towards meeting that need by providing classes during the evenings. Many under employed people are afraid to take up educational opportunities because they think they will be prevented from taking up full-time job opportunities. It is a catch-22. If the courses were provided free of charge during evenings, they could take up employment opportunities while also reskilling.

The Indecon report on JobBridge contained several interesting observations from the adult education perspective. The report noted: "An issue for the scheme concerns whether this group represents individuals who are most at risk of extended unemployment." Even though the highest unemployment levels in Ireland are among people in the adult and further education sector, JobBridge caters mainly for graduates. Why does it not cater for people in further education or those who want to return to education or employment after being out of both for a long time? The question also arises as to whether JobBridge should focus more closely on assisting those who have experienced long-term unemployment. It ignores the long-term unemployed even though they are a significant percentage of the overall number of unemployed.

That might be something to examine.

Other impacts highlighted by participants included that the scheme helped to boost their self-confidence, identify job opportunities suited to their abilities and kept participants close to the jobs market. That is huge. Once one is out of employment for a couple of years it is very difficult to get back into the frame of mind and the routine one needs to work in a job. Another impact was that it helped participants to establish contacts and networks. We constantly hear from our clients that there is a contact network surrounding being in employment. If one is outside that employment framework, as one could call it, one is not meeting or networking with people who are working; therefore, one does not know what is out there. One is out of the loop, so to speak. Internships for adults who are non-graduates would give them the opportunity to be closer to the workforce and the opportunities to stay in the loop.

I will refer to a few more issues. One is provision of workplace relevant skills. There is a huge need for greater co-operation between private industry and education. That is obvious to me in my job and I have looked at the situation in Germany and other countries. The FÁS equivalent in Germany, for example, is two thirds supported by the private sector. There is huge co-operation between private and public bodies in providing employment, but that does not appear to happen here. There is a huge gap and there does not appear to be a huge conversation between employment and education providers at any level, whereby they can talk to each other, share opportunities with each other to look at what is coming down the track and build on what each has and needs. A bottom-up approach is needed in course provision to match employer needs with educational opportunities. There is no point in putting on countless courses if there is no possibility of getting a job from them. A top-down approach where the Government encourages increased co-operation between employers and education and training bodies is needed. Public private partnership is used all the time to build bridges and motorways. Why is it not used more to facilitate employment opportunities?

As regards the Forfás recommendations, two thirds of the dual system of trade education in Germany is financed by the private sector. There is far greater public private co-operation. The report also highlights the German model of establishing career paths. For example, there are 650 types of apprenticeship in Germany, while there are fewer than 100 here. One undertakes an apprenticeship to become an ice cream maker. The apprenticeship framework appears to have fallen away and I hope the new SOLAS will replace it.

There also appears to be an over-reliance on generic transferable skills. While important, there are very few secretarial business studies opportunities available for people who have done a FETAC 5 course; therefore, specialist industry-related upskilling must become more widely available. An example is plastic injection moulding positions which still remain unfilled. These types of specific apprenticeship trade-related skills must be catered for, but it does not appear to be happening to a huge extent.

To refer to some solutions, one is attracting employees affected by lack of knowledge of career opportunities and negative perceptions of manufacturing. The "Making it in Ireland: Manufacturing 2020" Forfás report highlighted this. Again, there is a lack of clarity about defining career paths and a lifelong career path whereby one can move from one employment opportunity to another and build one's career. The Germans have the dual system and the United States has stackable credentials, whereby one can build on the skills and qualifications one already has and build one's career as one proceeds. That type of stackable credential, recognition of prior learning and building on formal and informal learning does not appear to happen in this country.

On the next solution, learning pathways to meet occupational standards and provide progressive routes, clients of our service in the past have found themselves at dead ends. One could be qualified as a carpenter or a civil engineer, but how does one change from that area into another? One might have specific trade related construction craftsman qualifications, but one is given no credit for this to come back into the third level sector, whereby one can use the credits one has already gained and be invited back into some other line of work, that is, to move across and then move up the national framework. What we are talking about are pathways that match in company and formal education learning pathways which provide opportunities for cross-linkages and joint provision, such that industry is tracked to higher education qualifications such as time served as an engineer. Multiple partners are required, as well as industry leadership. Where everybody comes together in a region such as the south east they see what skills gaps there are and work with employers to fill them. I was at a talk in the south east previously where employers stated they had come to talks with education providers but that they had not felt particularly welcome. The issue is to invite employers in and bring them to the table as equals.

There are a couple of conclusions. There must be greater interaction between enterprise bodies and agencies and education and training providers in addressing skills demands. Momentum, for example, is very popular for the youth, but it only caters for a certain amount of under-25s in terms of youth unemployment. More must be done in that regard. Education and training provision must have a greater alignment with enterprise skills needs, both current and future. In my own daily work Carlow VEC which will now be Kilkenny-Carlow ETB has responded to fill the gaps by offering more courses aimed at labour market gaps such as food science and information technology related courses. Once clients and adult learners know about these opportunities they can move on to Carlow IT and Waterford IT to study these areas. If one does not know about them, how does one know one is not good at them? Just because one has not tried something does not mean one is not good at it. Many adult learners would not know about the opportunities available or where the jobs are because they have no exposure, or in the past they had no exposure, to technology or employment areas. All promotion of STEM - science, technology, engineering and mathematics - appears to be aimed at leaving certificate students and those coming out of these areas, whereas adult learners and further education participants are just as capable, if not more so, of taking up these opportunities, but they have very limited awareness of them.

I thank the committee for its time.