Ms Niamh Crowley:

I wish to come back on a number of points. We are arguing that this framework document will break the cycle. Even though only 52% of schools legally have to do history, many are amalgamated secondary schools which had history and geography as a core part of their culture. That is why large numbers are still doing it at junior certificate level. The framework document is breaking that cycle and creating a tabula rasa.

Senior cycle students take seven subjects for the leaving certificate, with English, Irish, maths, and a modern language at the core. They have to choose three subjects from a vast range. At 15 or 16 years of age students are moving into different interest areas, such as science or business studies. They only have three optional subjects and the fact that there is a large drop in the number studying history is not surprising.

We take the point that history is not seen as being as popular as geography. More students achieve very high grades, such as A grades, in history, but geography is perceived as being easier to pass or to get a C at higher level because it does not involve a lot of reading. Although the junior certificate curriculum is very interesting, it is overloaded. History teachers participated in a reform document about ten years ago but it is sitting on a shelf, ironically, because of the new framework document. We could be teaching a better junior certificate today but it was shelved several years ago. It was proposed that the course be shortened to incorporate more skills.

Deputy Ó Ríordáin will be interested to know that junior certificate students learn about TB in Ireland in the 1940s. Pádraig Pearse has not been eclipsed in the junior certificate syllabus. For students who did not have the benefit, unlike Deputy Griffin, of Gearóid Ó Tuathaigh's teaching in Galway, people might be interested to know that there is an excellent lecture by him on why history matters on our website. The committee might enjoy it; there is a clip in the PowerPoint presentation we submitted.

The 24 statements ensure that everybody has to have some element of history, but it will not necessarily be a full subject. It could be a short course. In articles he has written, the Minister said students in Wexford could study the 1798 rebellion and Battle of Vinegar Hill and students in Meath could study the Norman invasion and Trim Castle. That is not a full historical education. A learning experience could be involved, such as a heritage week or fortnight in a school or a museum visit. Schools could say they are fulfilling the statement of learning by having a learning experience or a short course, but it may not be a full subject.

As people said, it could be offered as a full subject or a short course but students might not choose it. The flexibility of the document is the problem. We could have brilliant history courses in some schools, but it allows for some students not to have that opportunity or not to choose the opportunity. The consultation with young people found that they enjoyed learning history but they only knew that because they had had the opportunity to do so. If they were not studying it they would not know they enjoyed it. I return to our first point on entitlement. Every young person Ireland is entitled to an historical education.