Mr. John Prendergast:

Mr. Sweeney fairly stole my thunder and there is not much that I can say. I will add what we would believe as being the functional aspect of the application, app. The app is a simple technology. One has ZAPA tags now for one's coffee. Tesco has a tag. Everybody has a tag. It is not difficult technology to develop.

Senator Quinn, coming as he does from the retail business, will appreciate that there is no smoking gun out there that will fix this problem. It is not a matter of pulling the trigger and then it goes away. It is a combination of issues. Fixing one issue in isolation will not fix this problem. As Grant Thornton stated, an overall approach needs to be taken.

First, there is virtually no penalty on the smugglers coming in. The maximum fine is €3,800 or something like that. There is no minimum penalty. It is not a hard drug and there are much lower penalties than in the case of cocaine, heroin or such like. It is much more lucrative for the smugglers.

Generally, the worst the smuggler's people on the street will get, if they are caught, is a minimum fine or they will lose their product. We know of one case where a Polish girl was caught in possession of a large quantity of cigarettes and she stated in court that she was made to by her boyfriend and the case was dismissed. She was fined €1. For me, as a legitimate trader who is licensed by the State to sell a legal product, there is a minimum penalty of €10,000 and a week's closure of the business, and I am heavily legislated for. I am obeying the law, yet I am the one who has the biggest stick hung over his head. We are doing all of this and we are acting legally, while those on the other side are being given carte blanche.

On the end-user side, there are consumers who are unknowingly smoking illicit product that is incredibly damaging to their health. They are buying the product that they think is legal-----