Mr. Michael O'Brien:

We are pleased with the response from both members. As a member of a national delegation, I cannot deal with the south east with the same freedom as Senator Cullinane but we have had contact with our opposite number, the National Association of Councillors in Northern Ireland, and are quite aware of its input into the development of enterprise at local level. We share the frustration both members mentioned about wanting to get the whole thing up and running quickly. However, we are going through a very dramatic process of local government reform and want to make sure it is correct as much as the Members and the Oireachtas. In respect of the presentation by Ms Hanniffy, the question arises of who adjudicates over the adjudicators. We are saying there were always checks and balances in the old system in that we must answer to people every five years if we get it wrong. We would be concerned that the democratic element will be lost.

We also understand that in the process of developing the changes that are designed to take place, the idea at the embryonic stage is for the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. Now it has moved with a particular ethos which we believe to be hostile in some cases to what local government does in terms of the democratic process. In particular, representation from small business has always indicated a hostility that is unwelcome in this day and age. We are being looked at not just nationally but internationally in terms of how we are going to develop local government. The State has signed the European Charter of Local Self-Government through the Council of Europe. The core of this charter is the necessary devolution of functions to local government. Here is something that is rowing against that. It is removing the devolution process that should be dealt with at local level from local authorities and sending matters back to central government, which is against the ethos for which we stand.

We welcome what both members just said and want to see the LEOs up and running but we want to see it done properly. The adjustment proposed by Ms Hanniffy involves the democratic element of decision making in the new LEOs containing the checks and balances we can produce.