Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 2 May 2013

Public Accounts Committee

Business of Committee

10:00 am

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The first item on the agenda is the minutes of the meeting of 25 April. Are they agreed to? Agreed.

The following is the correspondence received since the meeting of 25 April. No. 3A is correspondence from Accounting Officers. No. 3A.1 is correspondence, dated 30 April 2013, from Mr. Michael O’Keeffe, chief executive, Broadcasting Authority of Ireland, providing information requested at the meeting of 18 April. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

No. 3B is individual correspondence. No. 3B.1 is correspondence, dated 22 March 2013, from an anonymous source regarding the abuse of the free travel pass scheme. The correspondence is to be noted and forwarded to the Department of Social Protection and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport for necessary follow-up action.

No. 3B.2 is correspondence, dated 25 March 2013, from Mr. Michael Brosnan, North Circular Road, Dublin 7, regarding cases involving Mr. Harry O’Reilly who is seeking certain information from the Property Registration Authority. The correspondence is to be noted. While this appears to be outside the remit of the committee, we will ask the Property Registration Authority to send us a note on the matter.

No. 3B.3 is correspondence, received on 25 April from an anonymous source, regarding the maintenance of rolling stock by Irish Rail. The correspondence is to be noted and forwarded to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and the National Transport Authority for necessary follow-up action. Presumably, they will come back to us on the matter.

No. 3B.4 is correspondence, dated 24 April 2013, from Mr. Eugene Mitchell, Ballinasloe, County Galway, regarding flooding in Ballinasloe and the alleged waste of public money by Galway County Council. The correspondence is to be noted. While this is a matter primarily for the local authority, we will forward the correspondence to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and ask it for its response.

No. 3C is documents relating to the committee meeting of 2 May. No. 3C.1 is correspondence, received on 30 April from Mr. John Tierney, chairman, Dublin Docklands Development Authority, regarding the opening statement. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

No. 3C.2 is correspondence, received on 1 May from Ms Geraldine Tallon, Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government, regarding the opening statement. The correspondence is to be noted and published.

Reports, statements and accounts received since the meeting of 25 April include those for the Athlone Institute of Technology and the Office of the Revenue Commissioners.

Our work programme is now on screen. On Monday the special report of the Comptroller and Auditor General on the administration of the national health and local authority levy fund was published. It is to be factored in to the work programme. I will ask the clerk to the committee to produce a briefing note for next week's meeting on how we will continue the examination of this issue. I propose that we dispose of the report before the summer recess. This committee and its predecessor have examined the issue. Perhaps we might find an early date to deal with it because it dates back to the last committee meeting.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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What issue does it concern?

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The HSE SIPTU fund. I thought we might get in the appropriate witnesses to deal with it at an early date, if that is agreed to by members.

Photo of Derek NolanDerek Nolan (Galway West, Labour)
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Who would be considered the appropriate witnesses?

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Accounting Officer for the HSE, SIPTU and, presumably, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Clerk to the Committee:

And possibly the Department of Health.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Possibly. Was it the HSE or the Department which was investigating this matter prior to the Comptroller and Auditor General investigating it?

Photo of Derek NolanDerek Nolan (Galway West, Labour)
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The HSE.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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There may be other witnesses members wish to ask about. There are two key individuals who ran the scheme. The question of whether they should be invited to attend can be discussed afterwards.

Photo of Derek NolanDerek Nolan (Galway West, Labour)
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It would be worth considering.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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In order to consider it, the clerk to the committee would, presumably, have to write to and invite both individuals to attend.

Clerk to the Committee:

Yes.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Owing to the fact that they are now private individuals, it is up to them to attend without being compelled to do so.

Photo of Derek NolanDerek Nolan (Galway West, Labour)
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I imagine their names will be mentioned a lot. If we are mentioning names, they should have a right of reply.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is right. They have already been mentioned in public dispatches.

Photo of Derek NolanDerek Nolan (Galway West, Labour)
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And in the press.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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It is only appropriate that if the committee agrees to do this, we write to both individuals and ask them to attend the hearing and set an appropriate and early date for it.

Can we agree the agenda for the meeting on Thursday, 9 May, when we will convene at 10 a.m. to meet officials of the Office of the Revenue Commissioners? The agenda will be the 2011 annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, chapter 11 - VAT on intra-Community trade. Is that the only issue to be discussed?

Clerk to the Committee:

That is the only issue. We have disposed of everything else, but that would not prevent a wider discussion on issues with Revenue.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Is that agreed? Agreed.

Before calling the witnesses, Mr. Tierney is here as chairman of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. We will be dealing with the issue of departmental oversight. I understand Mr. Tierney will make an opening statement, but he may have to leave early because he has another commitment. We can always come back to the issue.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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At what time does he have to leave?

Clerk to the Committee:

Probably shortly after the opening statement. He is taking over at Irish Water this week. The committee has already agreed that it will be bringing him back to consider the accounts of the Dublin Docklands Development Authority which will be the subject of a full meeting. The purpose of this meeting is primarily to deal with the issue of departmental oversight.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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We discussed this issue at our last meeting. Can I double check whether Mr. Tierney is continuing in this role?

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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He is winding down at the Dublin Docklands Development Authority. Is that correct?

Clerk to the Committee:

Perhaps the Chairman might ask him that question after his presentation because we might give members an opportunity to question him as soon as he finishes his statement.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I would prefer if we heard all of the opening statements together. Each of us could then choose the areas we wanted to discuss. My understanding is that the Dublin Docklands Development Authority is moving to Dublin City Council and that, as the current city manager, he has had responsibility for that area. I would like to know whether, once he finishes at the council, he will continue to have a separate role in respect of the authority.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I just want to clarify what is his position before he comes into the room.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Of course.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is saying his preference is to hear all of the opening statements first?

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy might then direct his questions towards Mr. Tierney in order that we can structure his departure time from the meeting.

Photo of Paschal DonohoePaschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I will be the first questioner and it is my intention to focus on the role of the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government and its oversight mechanisms. After Mr. Tierney has given his testimony, the Chairman might ask him what his role will be in the future?

Photo of John McGuinnessJohn McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Okay. If members want to ask questions, they can do so.