Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We are now in public session. The next item on the agenda is the scrutiny of EU proposal COM (2013) 133 for a directive of the European Parliament and the Council establishing a framework for maritime spatial planning and integrated coastal management. At last week's meeting, the committee agreed that this proposal warranted further scrutiny, especially concerning issues surrounding the principle of subsidiarity. I wish to thank officials from the four Departments concerned for being here today at short notice to explain fully the proposal before us and also to assist the committee in its scrutiny. The committee can then decide whether it wishes to take any further action.

I welcome the following officials: Mr. John Quinlan, Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine; Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue, Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government; Ms Una Dixon, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources; and Mr. Martin Diskin and Mr. Séamus Ryan, Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. I understand that Mr. Quinlan and Ms O'Donoghue will make the opening remarks. I will then call on members to ask questions, if they have any. The officials can then respond as they see fit.

Before we begin, I wish to bring to their attention the fact that witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they are to give to the committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and they continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given.

Witnesses are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I invite Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue to make her opening remarks.

Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue:

I thank the Chairman and wish everyone a good morning. I will open by providing an overview of the way in which marine issues are being handled at present across the Government. Some time ago, in recognition of the need for co-ordination and integration among Departments with an interest in marine issues, the Government established a high level marine co-ordination group. It is chaired by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney, and includes representation from the Departments of the Taoiseach, Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Environment, Community and Local Government, Transport, Tourism and Sport, Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and Public Expenditure and Reform. Representatives from the Marine Institute also attend. Under the auspices of the group, the integrated marine plan for Ireland, Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth, was developed. Its vision is to ensure that the oceans contribute to economic recovery while generating benefits for citizens and this vision is underpinned by three high-level goals, namely, a thriving maritime economy, healthy ecosystems and engagement with the sea.

The aforementioned plan recognises that managing the seas requires a national marine spatial plan, which should be underpinned by effective planning and licensing frameworks. To this end, the group established what we refer to as the enablers' task force on marine spatial planning. It is regarded as a key action of the Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth plan and the group's terms of reference include the consideration of emerging European Union policy in this space, the need for legislative change that may be required to support a national marine spatial planning framework, international best practice in the area and consideration of a national spatial planning capacity and responsibility for data co-ordination and exchange. This task force is carrying out its work programme at present and is due to conclude and report to the marine co-ordination group in September. In this regard, the publication of the draft directive is timely as it will give the group an opportunity to consider both initial member state views and institutional views of maritime spatial planning across the European Union, which it will then consider in the context of its wider work programme.

I should clarify that four Departments are represented here today and pending the outcome of the enablers' task force on consideration of marine spatial planning for Ireland, no lead Department has been identified as yet.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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For clarity, the Commission proposal COM (2013) 133 was sent from the Department of the Taoiseach to the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine for its consideration. I apologise if I referred to the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government as being the lead Department.

Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue:

No, I simply wished to clarify the manner in which it is being handled in a collaborative sense at present.

Turning to the directive itself, as members probably are aware, it was published in March 2013 and consequently, the discussions are at a very early stage. The proposal itself aims to establish a common framework for marine spatial planning and integrated coastal management among the member states with a view to ensuring the growth of marine and coastal activities, as well as the use of resources at sea and on coasts, remain sustainable. Marine spatial planning is a process based on stakeholder involvement. It analyses and plans best use of the seas and where and when human activity should take place. Integrated coastal management is a separate tool that is used to co-ordinate all policy processes affecting the coastal zone. It addresses land-sea interaction in a co-ordinated way, again with a view to ensuring sustainable development and use of those resources. The Commission perceives maritime spatial planning or marine spatial planning and integrated coastal management to be complementary tools, which, when applied jointly, can improve the land-sea interface planning and management.

As for the national position, as I mentioned discussions are at a preliminary stage. There have been a small number of working group meetings at official level in Brussels but as I have outlined, from the work that is going on nationally under the Harnessing Our Ocean Wealth plan, it is clear that Ireland supports the concept of marine spatial planning. Ireland currently holds the Presidency of the European Council and given this role, which continues for a further two months, as matters stand we are obliged to maintain a neutral position on the discussions. However, suffice it to say the directive is regarded as a framework proposal. Its objectives are operational in nature and ultimately, if adopted, I expect the outcome would be that member states would be required to develop and implement marine spatial planning across the European seas to ensure sustainable management of the coastal areas and to ensure cross-border co-operation in areas of mutual concern.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does Mr. John Quinlan have anything to add?

Mr. John Quinlan:

No, my colleague, Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue has covered the general issues on behalf of all of us and we have nothing further to add. Obviously, in the case of my Department, our primary interest is in those issues which come within the remit of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. However, as Ms O'Donoghue has observed, everything is at an early stage and we are approaching this proposal on a collaborative basis under the auspices of Roinn an Taoisigh.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am very concerned about this proposal because my experience with European Union regulations and directives is they all pertain to worthy causes and principles with which no one can argue but when they get their teeth in it, it becomes a total bureaucratic nightmare. The reality is that facing eastward, we face Britain and facing to the west, we face the United States of America and Canada. Our cables go west as well as east and therefore, we need an international framework to deal with these issues. I hate being bounced into things and my proposal is the joint committee should oppose this measure, put up the red flag or whatever and indicate that-----

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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To clarify, our option is to submit a reasoned opinion, if we so wish.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, a negative reasoned opinion.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We can go through that after deciding-----

Susan O'Keeffe (Labour)
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To clarify, does Deputy Ó Cuív propose the joint committee should oppose this measure?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose the joint committee should submit a negative reasoned opinion in respect of Europe taking control of this issue. I believe Ireland should have a spatial plan and have no problem with what the Departments are doing. I am absolutely 100% in favour of it but my point is that if members are considering this issue in Ireland's national context, America and Britain are important. Consequently, bilateral arrangements with those two countries would be a lot more important than having in place some arrangement that tied us up with all sorts of issues with which we do not have any real connection in the Mediterranean, the Baltic or all sorts of other places.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The issue here is the question of subsidiarity.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Exactly, that is the issue.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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That is the key and is the issue before the joint committee, which has been asked to run the rule over or scrutinise this particular proposal. The issue is whether the question of subsidiarity arises.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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The departmental officials should indicate what is the timescale in this regard. While they both observed it was in its early stages, by the time it has been discussed in Europe, all submissions have been made and it has gone through whatever committees and so on, what is the timescale before this measure actually will be passed in Europe? Is it the case that it will take ages in Europe and we may never see it?

Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue:

I suspect that may be the case and that there are mixed views around the table at European level on the proposal. As for timeframes set out the proposal itself, after transposition I believe it gives a two-year timeframe, which may be problematic. It is proposed that member states would have 36 months in which to develop a marine spatial plan, which generally is regarded as a short timeframe.

Pat O'Neill (Fine Gael)
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In other words, submissions already have been made from three countries, with others possibly to follow. Ms O'Donoghue really is telling me this will never happen.

Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue:

I am not saying it will never happen. I am saying that in my view, the discussions at European level could be drawn out.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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To clarify, four member states, namely, Germany, Finland, the Netherlands and Poland already have submitted reasoned opinions. The United Kingdom may do so and others, such as Lithuania, Sweden and Denmark, are considering it. The information I have to hand is they are at the same stage as Ireland. The deadline for the submission of a reasoned opinion is 13 May and consequently, the joint committee must make up its mind next week. The background in this regard is that Ireland's holding of the EU Presidency obviously means we must maintain a neutral stance. This is a matter with which Lithuania must deal during its EU Presidency.

If the reasoned opinions, and four have already been submitted, are only being submitted on 13 May, it will not be possible for it to be brought to a conclusion in the six remaining weeks of the Irish EU Presidency. I propose that we suspend the meeting to consider the information from the Department in private session now. Is that agreed? Agreed.

I thank the witnesses for attending the joint committee. The information they provided is important for us to do our job correctly. We needed the information in that context. We will now suspend the meeting while the officials withdraw and will then go into private session.