Ms Caitriona O'Brien:

I also will go through the points as raised, some of which already have been covered by Ms Moira O'Mara. I will start with the point raised by Deputy Ó Caoláin and others regarding joined-up working and it is absolutely true. In a way, at a time when we have less money and fewer staff resources across Departments, we must consider ways of working smarter and doing things better. One obvious thing to do is to link with other Departments and try to share some of the workload. Literally, this has happened in respect of the early childhood education space because even before the Department of Children and Youth Affairs was established and ever since the days of the Office of the Minister for Children, the early childhood education section of the Department of Education and Skills has been physically located with the Office of the Minister for Children. That has put them in that kind of different thinking space as well, which is very useful. Another example is research capacity, because that is where we get the information. We get the data that give one the evidence on which to base whatever policy decisions one makes. The Growing Up in Ireland longitudinal study is a huge, highly valuable study. The Department of Education and Skills is participating in that and for a number of years we have taken the view that if researchers are going into homes and schools to ask questions, one should make sure they are asking all the questions they possibly could. Consequently, we have fed questions into that study which would be of particular value to our Department, even though the research project is located in the office of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. Although the ESRI is heading up that research project with Trinity College, in addition to the overall data bank they publish individual reports all the time, one of which is about to be published on attendance levels in schools. This actually comes from the Growing Up in Ireland data on foot of the kind of questions we were seeking to have included in it. This is just an example of Departments thinking together and working just a little bit more smartly to get better outcomes.

Deputy Ó Caoláin also referred to conditions in schools and really it is the idea of rural isolation and the overall position with regard to small schools and so on. Members probably are aware of the programme of the planning and building unit, that is, the Department's forward planning section. A couple of things are going on including the amalgamation project or process if one wishes to call it that, the divesting programme and the outcome of the recent value for money review of small schools. While stuff is going on regarding the schools' physical story, the bigger question concerns equipping the teachers to teach the children in such schools and to deal with the kinds of issues that come up. In this regard, the focus is on both building up initial teacher training capacity and in the kinds of continuous professional development, CPD, teachers get. This is because, in common with the rest of the public service, there are fewer teachers and they need to have better capacity to deal, within the school day and in the school building, with the variety of things against which they will come up.

Another key area that keeps coming up in all of the research we look at concerns parents and parental involvement in schools. This probably is true most of all in rural communities, where the school is one of the key parts of the local community. Parental involvement is key and it particularly is the case for certain minority groups, like the Traveler community, ethnic minorities and immigrant communities, that the involvement of parents from those communities is key. While those issues often are perceived as a problem, in many cases they make school and community life all the richer for their participation.

On the issue of access to third level, the point to make is that pre-DEIS or in its very early stages, the focus was on progression from primary to post-primary school. Happily, the focus has shifted from making sure that children progress from primary to post-primary school to giving consideration to ensure they completed the junior cycle. While that was the focus, happily we now are in the space that the worry, if one likes, concerns our wish to ensure they go to third level. There is much going on in this regard such as transition year initiatives and the involvement in schools of business and the private sector. Such entities enter schools or take children into their companies and businesses to show them what working life would be like. This is an impetus in its own right.

To mention the G word, that is, the guidance story in schools, although there has been a reduction in this regard, the emphasis, like in everything else, is turning to building up capacity among the overall school team. In other words, just because one is a geography teacher or a history teacher does not mean one does not have a role in guidance or in the pastoral story in the school. It really is about teachers encouraging the children in their classes and placing the kind of value they should have on education and on getting further education. This is difficult and it is difficult for many families who are struggling themselves. In particular, much of the research shows that in the case of parents who themselves have not progressed past primary level or who do not have second or certainly not third level education, it is difficult for them to put themselves into that space. However, the emphasis really is on the teaching community and the capacity in schools to put value on progressing. Moreover, to be fair to the third level colleges, they also do a fair amount of work in this area, as do the student organisations in third level.

I will talk a little about the learning from DEIS and the prevention and early intervention programme, PEIP. Deputy Conway asked about the link between them and the difficulty in a number of the projects that have been implemented to date has been that they did operate in parallel.

The Department of Education and Skills is keen that would change in the next phase and that we would start to get some of the learning out of it. Apart from anything else, there are good lessons to be obtained from it. There is valuable information and learning which we would like to see being brought into the mainstream system.

I will cite a couple of examples of what we have learned. One of the very important parts of DEIS is to encourage leadership, schools linking together and principals building up networks. For instance, in Limerick there is a network called Oscailt which works in the system with Mary Immaculate College and the University of Limerick, with funding from Atlantic Philanthropies. The result of that is a strong team of DEIS principals who have done a lot of things together and have shared valuable learning. From that has come a change to the kind of things one would ordinarily expect to be happening in the DEIS programme. When it came to doing the next project with more funding, rather than taking on board yet another literacy project to be delivered after the school completion programme, their literacy programme is now concentrating on continuing professional development, CPD, and training for teachers. In that way, teachers are better equipped to deal with the kind of issues that arise in their schools as well as being better able to deliver literacy and numeracy. Therefore, instead of delivering yet another programme for children, they are concentrating on the teachers.

One of the important messages to come out of the DEIS experience in Limerick - but also in other parts of the country - is the value of interventions relating to behaviour. Programmes, such as "Incredible Years", are valuable because the earlier the intervention takes place the better it is. That programme has been operated in a number of locations around the country with philanthropic funding and the National Educational Psychological Service, NEPS, which is involved and working with the private sector.

Ms O'Mara mentioned homework clubs and the school completion programme, SCP, which is now with the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. There is a planned review of SCP and the Department of Education and Skills will be looking forward to assisting with that because of its integral link to the DEIS programme.